ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Worf & Alexander

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Sep. 24 2011, 4:57 pm

Martok: "We have shed blood together, escaped from a Dominion prison together. You have pledged yourself and your life to my house, and in all that time you never told me that you had a son."
(Sons and Daughters)


Kurn: "Are you a part of my family?"
Worf: "I have no family."
(Sons of Mogh)


Tumek: "Tell me, Worf. Have you ever courted a Klingon woman?"
Worf: "No."
(Looking for Par'Mach in all the Wrong Places)


Wow. He really doesn't want to acknowledge Alex does he?


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Tuvokian

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 72

Report this Sep. 25 2011, 12:00 pm

I always had the same feeling. I mean, you COULD understand the guy up to some point, he got raised by human parents being a klingon. That really is a good point for messed up identity. But they made him almost as impossible guy with so much lossess...


- he gets to be beaten so many times


- through those beatings several times he got back breaking klingon traditions that he hold much up to


- he lost his love, mother of Alexander (good thing he did revenge though)


- he failed hard on the issue of his brother, and he obviously avoids to be a father, for whatever reason


 


IMHO, he is trying too hard to sit in 2 chairs...


 


 

Beershark

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2590

Report this Sep. 25 2011, 4:19 pm

Quote: OtakuJo @ Sep. 24 2011, 4:57 pm

>

>Martok: "We have shed blood together, escaped from a Dominion prison together. You have pledged yourself and your life to my house, and in all that time you never told me that you had a son."
(Sons and Daughters)

>Kurn: "Are you a part of my family?"
Worf: "I have no family."
(Sons of Mogh)

>Tumek: "Tell me, Worf. Have you ever courted a Klingon woman?"
Worf: "No."
(Looking for Par'Mach in all the Wrong Places)

>Wow. He really doesn't want to acknowledge Alex does he?

>


and what ever happened to that kid, Jerremy, he bonded with after his mom died on an away mission worf was leading?


CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

Beershark

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2590

Report this Sep. 25 2011, 4:23 pm

Quote: OtakuJo @ Sep. 24 2011, 4:57 pm

>

>Martok: "We have shed blood together, escaped from a Dominion prison together. You have pledged yourself and your life to my house, and in all that time you never told me that you had a son."
(Sons and Daughters)

>Kurn: "Are you a part of my family?"
Worf: "I have no family."
(Sons of Mogh)

>Tumek: "Tell me, Worf. Have you ever courted a Klingon woman?"
Worf: "No."
(Looking for Par'Mach in all the Wrong Places)

>Wow. He really doesn't want to acknowledge Alex does he?

>


I know wirth Kurn, it was important not to ackowledge any kinship. Worf had accepted disgrace to protect the empire. That would also have fell on any kown family members, so not ackowledging Kurn as his brother or alex as his son, protected them. It was the honorable thing to do.


As for not courting a klingon woman, Alex's mother was only half klingon. The context of the question implies a full blooded klingon female, so Worf's answer is acceptable, if not entirely accurate.


CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

OneDamnMinuteAdmiral

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1401

Report this Sep. 27 2011, 2:39 pm

I always thought Worf tried too hard to be Klingon. I get wanting to learn about your heritage and such but he seemed to be overcompensating a lot. And you know what, a real man wouldn't care what people thought about his family. All that glory for the empire crap was just annoying especially since like 80% of Klingons were not honorable. Family should always come first. If I was a part of some country that flip-flopped against and for me like they did to Worf I wouldn't have anything to do with them.


Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?

wissa

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4019

Report this Sep. 27 2011, 3:32 pm

I agree.  He was always trying to outKlingon the Klingons and took every tradition at face value.  Every society has lots of traditions no one really follows in their every day life.  Because he was raised by Humans though it makes sense that he would be that way.  It's a shame they didn't do more with his relationship with Alexander.



Like us on Facebook Haters gotta hate

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Sep. 27 2011, 7:25 pm

Quote: Beershark @ Sep. 25 2011, 4:23 pm

Quote: OtakuJo @ Sep. 24 2011, 4:57 pm

>

>

>

>Kurn: "Are you a part of my family?"
Worf: "I have no family."
(Sons of Mogh)

>

I know wirth Kurn, it was important not to ackowledge any kinship. Worf had accepted disgrace to protect the empire. That would also have fell on any kown family members, so not ackowledging Kurn as his brother or alex as his son, protected them. It was the honorable thing to do.


Except that his dishonour at that point had nothing whatever to do with the Duras. It was after he had been shunned a second time for refusing to ally himself with the Empire against Cardassia, and he had told Gowron years before that Kurn was his brother.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

LtPondwater9

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 11620

Report this Sep. 28 2011, 1:55 pm

Quote: OtakuJo @ Sep. 24 2011, 4:57 pm

>

>Martok: "We have shed blood together, escaped from a Dominion prison together. You have pledged yourself and your life to my house, and in all that time you never told me that you had a son."
(Sons and Daughters)

>Kurn: "Are you a part of my family?"
Worf: "I have no family."
(Sons of Mogh)

>Tumek: "Tell me, Worf. Have you ever courted a Klingon woman?"
Worf: "No."
(Looking for Par'Mach in all the Wrong Places)

>Wow. He really doesn't want to acknowledge Alex does he?

>


He resents Alexander for being more K'Ehler and never really knew Kurn.



The ducks fly at Midnight.

Blinkn

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 232

Report this Oct. 04 2011, 9:10 am

Well I think Alexander and Jeremy omissions have more to do with writers once again not paying attention to history... though Worf and his son's relationship was so... strange. It was tense almost to the point of being ridiculous.


That attitude about family is rather specious, having been raised by humans Wrof aspired to be the "model" of Klingon and so he followed the dictates of that culture to the letter, if not always the spirit. And in fact, Worf was not a "man". If Klingon culture says this is how you behave as Klingon regarding family, honor, and duty to the empire then that can't be just swept aside because it doesn't track with "our", which is itself an esoteric view of family.


 

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Oct. 04 2011, 8:09 pm

@ Blinkn which attitude are you talking about?


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

HisRoyalHighnessTheKing

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 34248

Report this Oct. 04 2011, 10:17 pm

Martok: "We have shed blood together, escaped from a Dominion prison together. You have pledged yourself and your life to my house, and in all that time you never told me that you had a son."


Worf may have considered himself a failure as a father and thus didn't want to share his personal shame with Martok


Kurn: "Are you a part of my family?"
Worf: "I have no family."


He had to break cleanly from Kurn. When he says "I have no family" to Kurn, the audience can clearly see that it is a painful thing for Worf to say.


Tumek: "Tell me, Worf. Have you ever courted a Klingon woman?"
Worf: "No."


Kehylar was half human


May God Save The King

Blinkn

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 232

Report this Oct. 05 2011, 11:27 am

OneDamnMinuteAdmiral's opinion on family.


I want to see a character that isn't labeled as 'gay' have a nice, normal romance with no hint of prejudice, no allegory and no message at all. Just put it there, like it happens all the time and no one gives a damn, which is exactly how it should be. I don't want a story about how no one understands them or how society isn't accepting, just have it happen. ~ SLagonia

HisRoyalHighnessTheKing

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 34248

Report this Oct. 06 2011, 10:11 pm

If I were Worf, as soon as the Klingon Empire wanted to blame my father for Khitomer, I would have left Starfleet, exposed their lies and deceit, joined Kurn, killed the Klingon chancellor, Duras, the Duras sisters and every member of the council who supported him, then finally declare myself absolute ruler of the Klingon Empire.


There was no need to accept dishonour when it was clearly obvious that honour didn't exist at the highest levels of the Klingon government, and besides, the whole reason they blamed Mogh and not Duras' father was because they feared splitting the Empire. But that happened anyway, and the Duras were defeated in two episodes.

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Oct. 06 2011, 11:37 pm

Well possibly -- but Worf views honour as being something very internal, and intregal to his self-identity. He doesn't tend to shape his idea of "honour" around what the Empire thinks should be "honourable", and I think regardless of how things are in the Empire, it is very important to him that he be able to view himself as honourable -- possibly even more so than that he should have the High Council's official sanction.


To commit to any act that he himself would consider "dishonourable" is, for better or worse, a line which Worf is not willing to cross.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

TrekFan1964

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 61

Report this Oct. 08 2011, 10:25 pm

Once the writers and producers moved Worf to DS9 they gave him an edge, which sharpened after Jadzia was killed.  I did not care for that edge as I thought the character of Worf was coming to terms with being a father to Alexander. Of course, when you move a character over to a different "darker" show as far as tone you have little choice to not move him to that same tone. I think the producers of DS9 wanted to bring out more of his Klingon side and the only way to do so was to leave Alexander out of the picture, or it ends up making a confusing situation with Worf and son more often..which interferes with Worf and Jadzia stories as well.

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum