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More Government Spending...

caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 5:11 am

^^  BamBam: Well then... I can't force you to read the actual record of what happened.  You can continue living in a fairytale world if you choose, but I deal in facts.


 


You're starting to remind me of the people that refuse to believe that 1+1=2, regardless of the proof.  Yes, I know that economics is harder, but the videos and the Congressional Records are available for anyone that wants to know the truth.


caltrek: You have still to offer one shred of evidence that has not been refuted. The evidnece you have offered consists on one article and two or three citations in which to arrive at the conclusion you suggest, we must assume that the persons cited were talking in code. If you go back and read this thread, you will see that in contrast, I have referred you to two books, and at least a half a dozen links and articles supporting my position. Yet, you expect me to take your word on your say so. A four sentence "you are wrong" hardly qualifies as counter evidence. Your credibility is still sinking.

caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 5:14 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Sep. 30 2011, 9:28 am

>

>And will the stupidity never end????

>"In its quest to promote taxpayer-funded entitlement programs, the Obama Administration has actually rewarded one state with a $5 million bonus for its efficiency in adding food-stamp recipients to already bulging rolls."

>http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/sep/5-mil-performance-bonus-food-stamp-sign

>


 


Change the subject if you wish. The fact is we got into this economic mess in large part because of the greed of the finance industry. It is that mess which has forced many to accept food stamps as a last resort.


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46304

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 10:08 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Oct. 01 2011, 5:11 am

>

>^^  BamBam: Well then... I can't force you to read the actual record of what happened.  You can continue living in a fairytale world if you choose, but I deal in facts.

>You're starting to remind me of the people that refuse to believe that 1+1=2, regardless of the proof.  Yes, I know that economics is harder, but the videos and the Congressional Records are available for anyone that wants to know the truth.

>caltrek: You have still to offer one shred of evidence that has not been refuted. The evidnece you have offered consists on one article and two or three citations in which to arrive at the conclusion you suggest, we must assume that the persons cited were talking in code. If you go back and read this thread, you will see that in contrast, I have referred you to two books, and at least a half a dozen links and articles supporting my position. Yet, you expect me to take your word on your say so. A four sentence "you are wrong" hardly qualifies as counter evidence. Your credibility is still sinking.

>
I have offered several articles and links before.  (If you want a book, try The Housing Boom and Bust by Professor Thomas Sowell)  I can lead you to water, but you're refusing to drink.  That's your choice.  The facts are the facts, regardless of whether you accept them or not.  I choose logic and facts, not rhetoric.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46304

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 10:14 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Oct. 01 2011, 5:14 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Sep. 30 2011, 9:28 am

>

>

>And will the stupidity never end????

>"In its quest to promote taxpayer-funded entitlement programs, the Obama Administration has actually rewarded one state with a $5 million bonus for its efficiency in adding food-stamp recipients to already bulging rolls."

>http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/sep/5-mil-performance-bonus-food-stamp-sign

>

 

Change the subject if you wish. The fact is we got into this economic mess in large part because of the greed of the finance industry. It is that mess which has forced many to accept food stamps as a last resort.

I wasn't changing the subject - it's about the government spending more and more money (especially stupidly!)  The government giving a bonus to a state to get more and more people on entitlements actually proves that it's NOT a last resort as you claim.


And your rhetoric of "greed" is illogical.  It continues to prove that you don't either don't understand or don't like simple economics and capitalism.


A company is in business to make money - nothing else.  They do it by creating a product/service that people buy.  If people buy it, and revenue > cost, then they make profit.  If not, then they should go out of business.  They should NOT receive bailouts/subsidies from government.


caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 12:16 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 01 2011, 10:08 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Oct. 01 2011, 5:11 am

>

>

>^^  BamBam: Well then... I can't force you to read the actual record of what happened.  You can continue living in a fairytale world if you choose, but I deal in facts.

>You're starting to remind me of the people that refuse to believe that 1+1=2, regardless of the proof.  Yes, I know that economics is harder, but the videos and the Congressional Records are available for anyone that wants to know the truth.

>caltrek: You have still to offer one shred of evidence that has not been refuted. The evidnece you have offered consists on one article and two or three citations in which to arrive at the conclusion you suggest, we must assume that the persons cited were talking in code. If you go back and read this thread, you will see that in contrast, I have referred you to two books, and at least a half a dozen links and articles supporting my position. Yet, you expect me to take your word on your say so. A four sentence "you are wrong" hardly qualifies as counter evidence. Your credibility is still sinking.

>
I have offered several articles and links before.  (If you want a book, try The Housing Boom and Bust by Professor Thomas Sowell)  I can lead you to water, but you're refusing to drink.  That's your choice.  The facts are the facts, regardless of whether you accept them or not.  I choose logic and facts, not rhetoric.


Fair enough. I will look into what professor Sowell says on the matter.


So what do you think of Stiglitz and Sorkin's books?


 


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 12:27 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 01 2011, 10:14 am

Quote: caltrek2 @ Oct. 01 2011, 5:14 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Sep. 30 2011, 9:28 am

>

>

>

>And will the stupidity never end????

>"In its quest to promote taxpayer-funded entitlement programs, the Obama Administration has actually rewarded one state with a $5 million bonus for its efficiency in adding food-stamp recipients to already bulging rolls."

>http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/sep/5-mil-performance-bonus-food-stamp-sign

>

 

Change the subject if you wish. The fact is we got into this economic mess in large part because of the greed of the finance industry. It is that mess which has forced many to accept food stamps as a last resort.

I wasn't changing the subject - it's about the government spending more and more money (especially stupidly!)  The government giving a bonus to a state to get more and more people on entitlements actually proves that it's NOT a last resort as you claim.

And your rhetoric of "greed" is illogical.  It continues to prove that you don't either don't understand or don't like simple economics and capitalism.

A company is in business to make money - nothing else.  They do it by creating a product/service that people buy.  If people buy it, and revenue > cost, then they make profit.  If not, then they should go out of business.  They should NOT receive bailouts/subsidies from government.


Oh I understand "simple" economics and capitalism. Problem is the world is not a simple place. What looks fine in paper on in theory can be horribly flawed in public. Fact is, I have been involved in attracting private sector investment into cities, and have had some success in that regard. In that sense,  I have probably created more jobs than all of the conservatives combined on these boards. So I know what it takes.


"...experience warns us of the fatal trendencies of a commerce unrestricted with Great Britain, and restricted by her pleasure and policy elsewhere. Whilst the limited market would continue overcharged with our exports, the disproportionate imports from it, would drain from us precious metals, endanger our monied Institutions; arrest our internal improvements, and would strangle in the cradle, the manufactures which promise so vigorous a growth. Nor would the evil be confined to our commerce, our agriculture, or our manufacturers. The Shipowners and Shipbuilders and mariners must be equally sufferers."


James Madison


Another book to add to your list: The Contours of American History by William Appleman Williams.


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46304

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 1:03 pm

Yes, "What looks fine in paper or in theory can be horribly flawed" - that's a perfect explanation of socialism.


You have no clue if you've "created more jobs than all of the conservatives combined on these boards".  I think's great if you are creating jobs, but that's not my goal - mine is to make money (which requires that I create a product/service that people want), and if hiring someone will make me money, then that's great.


And bringing up James Madison is a good thing - he's my favorite President.  Do you know where that quote comes from?  It's a letter to the House of Reps of South Carolina (Jan 1812) - and this discusses foreign policy - not internal commerce.  What was happening at that time is Great Britain was controlling the trade with the US to try to make us weaker (kind of like what China is doing now.)


caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 5:58 pm

So it is ok for government to intercede on behalf of corporations in its conduct of foriegn policy, but it is wrong for government to work to improve the general welfare of our own population.


Why do you think China has such an advantage right now in trading with the U.S. Yes, cheap labor is part of the picture, but that is not the whole story. The other part is that China is willing to subsidize certain sectors that it wants to see grow. That is why it is now running rings around the U.S. when it comes to alternative energy production such as solar and wind.


How totally ironic isn't it?


The world is in the midst of a global crisis brought on by global warming and it is undemocratic Communist China that is coming to the rescue.


If all the U.S. can produce is the biggest carbon foot print on the planet, then why should any body in the rest of the world listen to us?


 


 


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 6:04 pm

"History records that the money changers have used
every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible
to maintain their control over governments
by controlling the money and its issuance."


James Madison


 

caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 6:07 pm



Jesus harassing the working class.


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46304

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 6:18 pm

Quote: caltrek2 @ Oct. 01 2011, 5:58 pm

>

>So it is ok for government to intercede on behalf of corporations in its conduct of foriegn policy, but it is wrong for government to work to improve the general welfare of our own population.
Read the US Constitution.  It has nothing to do with the government interceding on behalf of corporations - it has to do with our country's relationship with other countries and establishing treaties.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46304

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 6:20 pm

Quote: caltrek2 @ Oct. 01 2011, 5:58 pm

>Why do you think China has such an advantage right now in trading with the U.S. Yes, cheap labor is part of the picture, but that is not the whole story. The other part is that China is willing to subsidize certain sectors that it wants to see grow. That is why it is now running rings around the U.S. when it comes to alternative energy production such as solar and wind.

>How totally ironic isn't it?
Yes, I'm familiar how the Chinese subsidizes some stuff, but that's their choice.  They also subsidize some of their companies to undercut foreign competition.  That's why there's so much talk about "fair trade" vs. "free trade."


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46304

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 6:22 pm

Quote: caltrek2 @ Oct. 01 2011, 5:58 pm

>

>The world is in the midst of a global crisis brought on by global warming and it is undemocratic Communist China that is coming to the rescue.
Aside from the lie about "global warming"....  Communist China is also on track to use more oil than any other country in just a few short years.


I believe China's policy is "all of the above."


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46304

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 6:24 pm

Quote: caltrek2 @ Oct. 01 2011, 6:04 pm

>

>"History records that the money changers have used
every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible
to maintain their control over governments
by controlling the money and its issuance."

>James Madison

>
Which is why the Federal government was given the authority/responsibility to control money in the US Constitution.  However, they abdicated that to the Federal Reserve almost a century ago.


caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Oct. 01 2011, 6:37 pm

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.

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