ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Why were so many characters on Voyager underdeveloped?

Blinkn

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 232

Report this Sep. 20 2011, 12:29 pm

The more I watch that episode the more I dislike that scene, I always felt it could have gone differently. Well that's not true, when I first watched it as a teen I was all caught up with Janeway and her plan, "how dare you, Chakotay, disloyal bastard!"


She was making a really questionable decision, she new that, she called it a deal with the devil. Was dessention that unexpected?

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Sep. 20 2011, 1:28 pm

Maybe producers didn't understand Chakotay could fiercely disagree and still be loyal. Maybe they were afraid of making it look like the female captain was being undermined even though they already did that by not giving Janeway a center chair.

SLagonia

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 18170

Report this Sep. 20 2011, 1:38 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Sep. 20 2011, 1:28 pm

>Maybe producers didn't understand Chakotay could fiercely disagree and still be loyal. Maybe they were afraid of making it look like the female captain was being undermined even though they already did that by not giving Janeway a center chair.


That's my thought.  Hollywood is a very sexist place, and I have no doubt they all thought we were too stupid to support a female captain if she wasn't made perfect.


"If it doesn't work, paint it." -Unofficial Motto of the Starfleet Border Patrol -------- "Speak for the unheard, secure the vulnerable, bring light to the dark, fight for those who cannot" -Real motto of The Starfleet Border Patrol

Dralek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 224

Report this Sep. 21 2011, 9:19 am

Quote: wissa @ Sep. 14 2011, 8:23 am

>

>when you look at something like Firefly and what they were able to do with their group of characters in 12 episodes while still visiting planets and interacting with the locals you really grasp how all the star trek episodes squandered their time as far as character development went.

>


14 episodes of Firefly.  Fox cancelled it after twelve.  Sorry, that poor, doomed show is one of my (not so) secret loves.

Blinkn

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 232

Report this Sep. 21 2011, 9:34 am

I love a "doomed" show, I find they are very good television. The creators usually know it won't last and put everthing into making a great little season of televison.


 


I never thought about the lack of a center chair, but now the thoughts gonna fester

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Sep. 21 2011, 4:06 pm

^ Yep. I found that her and Chakotay sat as equals mildly offensive to women and undermined her authority.

wissa

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4023

Report this Sep. 21 2011, 7:54 pm

Quote: Dralek @ Sep. 21 2011, 9:19 am

Quote: wissa @ Sep. 14 2011, 8:23 am

>

>

>when you look at something like Firefly and what they were able to do with their group of characters in 12 episodes while still visiting planets and interacting with the locals you really grasp how all the star trek episodes squandered their time as far as character development went.

>

14 episodes of Firefly.  Fox cancelled it after twelve.  Sorry, that poor, doomed show is one of my (not so) secret loves.


me too


We welcome st.com refugees! click on the image

wissa

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4023

Report this Sep. 21 2011, 8:04 pm

Quote: wissa @ Sep. 21 2011, 7:54 pm

Quote: Dralek @ Sep. 21 2011, 9:19 am

Quote: wissa @ Sep. 14 2011, 8:23 am

>

>

>

>when you look at something like Firefly and what they were able to do with their group of characters in 12 episodes while still visiting planets and interacting with the locals you really grasp how all the star trek episodes squandered their time as far as character development went.

>

14 episodes of Firefly.  Fox cancelled it after twelve.  Sorry, that poor, doomed show is one of my (not so) secret loves.

me too  It premiered 9 years ago today


We welcome st.com refugees! click on the image

PeepsMcJuggs

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 409

Report this Sep. 21 2011, 9:47 pm

Quote: SLagonia @ Sep. 13 2011, 12:08 pm

Quote: KelisThePoet @ Sep. 13 2011, 12:03 pm

>

> these characters were actually less underdeveloped than were Scotty, Uhura, Chekhov, Sulu, Rand and Chapel in the original Star Trek;

Well, that's by design.  It wasn't an ensable cast, it was Kirk, Spock and McCoy, with a number of memorable minor characters.  Because they were so memorable and well-acted, they came into their own in the movie franchise, but they were never meant to be anything more than background characters in the series. 

That's not a failing, I actually think a more focused cast would really help the next Trek installment - Work on developing a few characters really well rather than try to get everyone a line and never move anyone forward.


According to the ass-chewing that Shatner suffered at the hands of Nichelle Nichols whie researching for Star Trek Memories , it wasn't by design: it was Shatner absent-mindedly calling for axing the supporting character's lines when the script was running long.  It's one of the primary reasons Doohan resented Shatner for several decades.


I Borg'd yo mama last night. She found it very assimilating.

Vulcan1981

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 462

Report this Dec. 17 2011, 2:37 pm

I don't think any were underdeveloped, though some were more developed than others. I think B'Elanna was the character who came the most full circle.


Many were upset that Seven took so much foucs, but in the character's defense, they had to cram a lot of development for a character coming in halfway through the series. Her development was great...minus the last few episodes of season 7...


Harry could perhaps have used some more development, but honestly, they should have went with the original idea and killed him off instead of loosing Kes. He hung around like a useless wet rag most of the time. The show really just didn't need Harry Kim anymore. Don't get me wrong, I liked Harry, he just out lived his usefulness.


I would like to see a bit more of Chakotay, but he had some good moments...but they really should have referenced Native American belief and culture through a reliable source.


"Comforting words. Use them next time instead of "resistance is futile". You may elicit a few volunteers."- Seven of Nine

miklamar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2154

Report this Feb. 01 2012, 6:34 pm

I think the writing for the show was weak, because they couldn't figure out how to make it different from TNG.  Plus--I can hear the reaction already!--I think they had to keep the crew from overpowering the female captain.  Janeway was a strong character in many ways, but she was never a Queen Elizabeth I, Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir or Hillary Clinton!  They had to keep the crew from being too aggressive/assertive.


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

Vulcan1981

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 462

Report this Feb. 01 2012, 7:41 pm

Quote: miklamar @ Feb. 01 2012, 6:34 pm

>

>I think the writing for the show was weak, because they couldn't figure out how to make it different from TNG.  Plus--I can hear the reaction already!--I think they had to keep the crew from overpowering the female captain.  Janeway was a strong character in many ways, but she was never a Queen Elizabeth I, Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir or Hillary Clinton!  They had to keep the crew from being too aggressive/assertive.

>


 


I disagree re: TNG. It was very much unlike TNG. It really went back to basics with Trek. Janeway had more first contacts than any other captain since Kirk. Voyager didn't have familiar worlds and villians to fall back on. Some of the writing yes, could have been better, but the crew was great. Perhaps one of Voyagers issues was the cast size of nine-the largest in Trek history, so naturally some characters wouldn't see much limelight.


Personally, Kim should have been killed like they originally planned to make more room for other character development. He was a useless character by season 2 anyway. Janeway got no more screen time than any other captain. Yes, she was strong, she had to be for them to survive.


"Comforting words. Use them next time instead of "resistance is futile". You may elicit a few volunteers."- Seven of Nine

DATAWORFfantotally

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 473

Report this May. 23 2012, 2:27 pm

Because  after all the over developed DS9 characters we needed a change

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this May. 24 2012, 9:35 am

Over developed?  I thought one of the strengths of DS9 is how well they developed all their characters, even the non-title characters so well. 


I think the chief problem with Voyager were the quality/professionalism of some of the actors (namely Wand and Beltran) and without ties to home, it was difficult to fully develop the characters.


RStar17

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 382

Report this May. 24 2012, 12:58 pm

Chakotay... he's an Indian.. we won't say what tribe so we can throw every sterotype out there at the audience. By the end it's like, we need a first officer, but he really doesn't do anything beyond saying "Aye Captain" to Janeway.


Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum