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Why were so many characters on Voyager underdeveloped?

Matthias Russell

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Report this Sep. 16 2011, 11:59 pm

I know you aren't bashing TNG, I'm just saying back story does add dimension to a character and can be relevant to a current plot.
I personally think Family is one of the best TNG episodes because Stewart really shows his acting abilities in it. You really feel the emotion when he cries in the vineyard. It was the kind of emotion I felt was regularly lacking in Voyager. Perhaps they were afraid having Janeway cry would be bad for the female captain.

Kelis, what would you say were the most powerful emotional character moments in Voyager?

KelisThePoet

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Report this Sep. 17 2011, 12:37 pm

Well, all the best were B'Elanna's, of course (personal bias):


"Lineage," all the way through, "Barge of the Dead," when she says goodbye to her mother, "Faces," when her Klingon half saved her, "Prototype," when she creates life, "Muse," when she ascends to the heavens


(all of those moments played on B'Elanna's back story, except the "Muse" and "Prototype" ones)


Here are some moments I remember responding to emotionally, involving other characters and episodes:


"Mortal Coil," when Neelix decides to live, and "Homestead" when he goes "home"


"Drone," when Seven says, "You're hurting me," and "Imperfection," when she learns that Icheb is enduring pain for her


"Concerning Flight," when Janeway flies with Da Vinci, "Year of Hell," when she talks about how Voyager has carried and nurtured the crew


"Virtuoso," when the doctor receives fan mail from Seven, "Heroes and Demons," when everyone's chanting "Schweizer"


"Innocence," when Tuvok sings Falor's Journey


I don't mean the above to be a comprehensive list--just the most memorable things, from my current perspective.


Falor was a prosperous merchant who went on a journey to gain greater awareness: Through storms he crossed the Voroth Sea/ To reach the clouded shores of Raal/ Where old T’Para offered truth./ He traveled through the windswept hills/ And crossed the barren Fire Plains/ To find the silent monks of Kir./ Still unfulfilled, he journeyed home/ Told stories of the lessons learned/ And gained true wisdom by the giving. – Falor’s Journey, “Innocence”

Blinkn

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Report this Sep. 17 2011, 4:40 pm

Quote: KelisThePoet @ Sep. 17 2011, 12:37 pm

>

>"Mortal Coil," when Neelix decides to live, and "Homestead" when he goes "home"

>"Drone," when Seven says, "You're hurting me," and "Imperfection," when she learns that Icheb is enduring pain for her

>"Concerning Flight," when Janeway flies with Da Vinci, "Year of Hell," when she talks about how Voyager has carried and nurtured the crew

>"Virtuoso," when the doctor receives fan mail from Seven, "Heroes and Demons," when everyone's chanting "Schweizer"

>"Innocence," when Tuvok sings Falor's Journey

>


I give all of those a big thumbs up. Except Virtuoso, not because I don't agee but the Doctor pissed me off with his ego in this one. I was kind've smugly pleased when the woman replaced him.


I want to see a character that isn't labeled as 'gay' have a nice, normal romance with no hint of prejudice, no allegory and no message at all. Just put it there, like it happens all the time and no one gives a damn, which is exactly how it should be. I don't want a story about how no one understands them or how society isn't accepting, just have it happen. ~ SLagonia

Matthias Russell

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Report this Sep. 18 2011, 6:07 pm

Those were character development stories, but few of them have the strength and personal growth of Family or Inner Light, but then Stewart is arguably the highest caliber actor in the franchise.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Sep. 18 2011, 8:14 pm

I just watched "Tatoo" and wasn't impressed.  I didn't get involved in the story nor did I conect with Chakotay.  I'm glad they provided back story but Beltran had no emotion when speaking of his father.  The story didn't really give him much depth other than to ay Chakotay got his tatoo to honor his father.


 


The story was also more far fetched than the Voth story to me while lacking the creativity and historical commentary of Distant Origin.

Tureaz'47

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Report this Sep. 18 2011, 8:19 pm

MR. Harry spent too long in the 'hollow deck,' and lost track of time.



The Borg and 7 of 9 got a lot of focus and development.


Mantaray

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Report this Sep. 19 2011, 6:39 am

I think much of the blame for the poor character development on VOY has to go to the producers and the network.   The first several years they tried to get stories to resonant and nothing really worked.  The producers kept looking for viewer interest and it just never happened.   The writing was so unfocused the characters suffered and the show just sucked.  Finally, I think Paramount just lost interest and had the writers just make the sinking ship the 7 of 9 T&A hour.

SLagonia

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Report this Sep. 19 2011, 11:46 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Sep. 18 2011, 8:14 pm

>

>I just watched "Tatoo" and wasn't impressed.  I didn't get involved in the story nor did I conect with Chakotay.  I'm glad they provided back story but Beltran had no emotion when speaking of his father.  The story didn't really give him much depth other than to ay Chakotay got his tatoo to honor his father.

>The story was also more far fetched than the Voth story to me while lacking the creativity and historical commentary of Distant Origin.

>


That and Tatoo was incredibly racist.  I hated that episode.


"If it doesn't work, paint it." -Unofficial Motto of the Starfleet Border Patrol -------- "Speak for the unheard, secure the vulnerable, bring light to the dark, fight for those who cannot" -Real motto of The Starfleet Border Patrol

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Sep. 19 2011, 1:18 pm

Quote: Mantaray @ Sep. 19 2011, 6:39 am

I think much of the blame for the poor character development on VOY has to go to the producers and the network.   The first several years they tried to get stories to resonant and nothing really worked.  The producers kept looking for viewer interest and it just never happened.   The writing was so unfocused the characters suffered and the show just sucked.  Finally, I think Paramount just lost interest and had the writers just make the sinking ship the 7 of 9 T&A hour.



Granted, Ryan has an incredible body and used it to the full but she is also a very talented actress and the Seven episodes were usually high quality stories, especially the ones where her and Janeway would butt heads.

KelisThePoet

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Report this Sep. 19 2011, 2:08 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Sep. 18 2011, 6:07 pm

>Those were character development stories, but few of them have the strength and personal growth of Family or Inner Light, but then Stewart is arguably the highest caliber actor in the franchise.


To quote a great Happy Days comeback:


Oh yeah?


Falor was a prosperous merchant who went on a journey to gain greater awareness: Through storms he crossed the Voroth Sea/ To reach the clouded shores of Raal/ Where old T’Para offered truth./ He traveled through the windswept hills/ And crossed the barren Fire Plains/ To find the silent monks of Kir./ Still unfulfilled, he journeyed home/ Told stories of the lessons learned/ And gained true wisdom by the giving. – Falor’s Journey, “Innocence”

Matthias Russell

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Report this Sep. 19 2011, 2:13 pm

Yeah.

KelisThePoet

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Report this Sep. 19 2011, 2:16 pm

 


Falor was a prosperous merchant who went on a journey to gain greater awareness: Through storms he crossed the Voroth Sea/ To reach the clouded shores of Raal/ Where old T’Para offered truth./ He traveled through the windswept hills/ And crossed the barren Fire Plains/ To find the silent monks of Kir./ Still unfulfilled, he journeyed home/ Told stories of the lessons learned/ And gained true wisdom by the giving. – Falor’s Journey, “Innocence”

chr33355

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Report this Sep. 19 2011, 4:45 pm

Quote: KelisThePoet @ Sep. 15 2011, 8:29 pm

Quote: chr33355 @ Sep. 14 2011, 8:34 pm

>

>Chakotey wasn't developed at all we had no references to the conflict between his starfleet and maqui backgrounds except in one episode.

Chakotay was a highly trained Starfleet officer.  He wasn't with the Maquis because he disagreed with Starfleet principles or because he preferred the Maquis way of operating.  He felt a duty to fight for his homeland and the memory of his father.  Take those specific, situational reasons for his allegiance to the Maquis out of the picture, and there's no reason he wouldn't fully embrace Starfleet.  Except for the fact HE LEFT STAR FLEET and had been doing things his way for years that just doesn't change over night.

This is what I mean about people just disliking Voyager's characters and then giving their personal dislike a more objective sounding term, like "underdeveloped."  Maybe some people would have preferred a character with a more rebellious mind set than Chakotay's--fine--but that doesn't mean the concept of Chakotay was not developed.  I'm not trying to tell other people what to like, but I am going to argue as long as people keep saying that the things I like are somehow objectively "bad."  Actually Chakotay really had no character he was a token Hollywood Native American.  All he really does is sit back and agree with Janeway.


Matthias Russell

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Report this Sep. 19 2011, 9:19 pm

He DID disagree with Janeway often.  But it was more like, "Here's another idea. . . . You don't agree?  Okay, lets do it your way then."  I like that Chakotay defended Janeway to the crew and supported her in public but I really wanted them to have it out in private. 


 


For example, I wish the discussion about the fox and the scorpion had gone like Lily and Picard arguing about destroying the enterprise. Really get angry, have some drama, then step onto the bridge and calmly do what has to be done as a united team.


SLagonia

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POSTS: 18170

Report this Sep. 20 2011, 8:43 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Sep. 19 2011, 9:19 pm

>

>He DID disagree with Janeway often.  But it was more like, "Here's another idea. . . . You don't agree?  Okay, lets do it your way then."  I like that Chakotay defended Janeway to the crew and supported her in public but I really wanted them to have it out in private. 


It was more like


"Here's my idea, what do you think, Chakotay?" 


"I think if we tweek it slightly..."


"You have completely lost faith in me.  You must not only agree to go with my plan but believe in it completely, or this will never work..."


"If it doesn't work, paint it." -Unofficial Motto of the Starfleet Border Patrol -------- "Speak for the unheard, secure the vulnerable, bring light to the dark, fight for those who cannot" -Real motto of The Starfleet Border Patrol

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