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Voyager is easily the weakes series

SeptuagintXXX

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POSTS: 79

Report this Sep. 05 2011, 1:57 pm

Voyager had the weakest


1) plot.  They could have done so much with this plot line, but instead almost every episode was generic.  Remember the episode "Darmok" in TNG.  That was a great episode about first contact with a species that had a completley unique method of communication.  In VOY they had instant communication with almost every species.  Almost every species that VOY encountered were generic and uninteresting.  Ultimately they had to resort to the Borg and "the weak shall perish" to keep the fans. 


2)  crew.  I know that individually VOY had some good character actors.  the Doctor, B'lanna, even Janeway were well acted (for Trek, that is), but the characers themselves were pretty stupid.  Paris was terrible. Chokotay was embarassing.  Neelix was obsequious. Kim was Wesley Crusher.  Seven was eye candy, but poorly acted. And Tuvok.  OMG.  Watching him do his straining-to-maintain-my-emotional-composure bit made me wince.  He would get that raspy voice.  It's pathetic. 


3)  The sets.  How many freaking episodes did they use that cave set?  Every other episode had the cave set. 


 


4)  plot II.  There were no though provoking episodes like there were on other series. There is literally not one episode of VOY that want to rewatch after I've seen it the first time.


 


5) rehashed TNG. 


 


all right VOY fans, let me have it.

SLagonia

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Report this Sep. 05 2011, 4:28 pm

I'll certainly agree that Voyager was very weak as Trek shows go, but I just want to complain that you dealt in way too many absolutes in your assessment. 


The plot, for example, can't be said to be completely wasted.  They didn't take full advantage of it, that's for sure - I could have done so much more with that (and Ron Moore did in BSG), but they did use it occasionally to their advantage.


The characters were incredibly one-dimensional at the beginning of the show, but over time many of them began to grow (granted more due to their actors than the writing).  The Doctor especially grew as time went on.


And I can't say they didn't have any thought-provoking episodes.  Too often they went with the easy way out or the formulaic ending when they could have done something really ground-breaking, but occasionally they did a little something with what they had.  Tuvix is a good example, as is Timeless. 


"If it doesn't work, paint it." -Unofficial Motto of the Starfleet Border Patrol -------- "Speak for the unheard, secure the vulnerable, bring light to the dark, fight for those who cannot" -Real motto of The Starfleet Border Patrol

Lazernugget

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POSTS: 44

Report this Sep. 05 2011, 5:49 pm

Quote: SLagonia @ Sep. 05 2011, 4:28 pm

>

>I'll certainly agree that Voyager was very weak as Trek shows go, but I just want to complain that you dealt in way too many absolutes in your assessment. 

>The plot, for example, can't be said to be completely wasted.  They didn't take full advantage of it, that's for sure - I could have done so much more with that (and Ron Moore did in BSG), but they did use it occasionally to their advantage.

>The characters were incredibly one-dimensional at the beginning of the show, but over time many of them began to grow (granted more due to their actors than the writing).  The Doctor especially grew as time went on.

>And I can't say they didn't have any thought-provoking episodes.  Too often they went with the easy way out or the formulaic ending when they could have done something really ground-breaking, but occasionally they did a little something with what they had.  Tuvix is a good example, as is Timeless. 

>


Agreed


 


Seriously, I know Voyager wasn't the best, but you don't need to insult it so hard. They don't use caves like crazy, and that's only one thing. The story-lines where fine, just a bit too repetitive toward the end. The characters were fine, although Janeway and 7/9 were a bit too over used in the last seasons, but Idk WHY everyone hates Paris so much, and Tuvok was a fine Vulcan. The plots weren't that bad. STOP RIPPIN' ON THE PLOTS! They weren't the best, but seriously, you think they were really that bad? Wow. Rehashed  TNG? NO WAY. Did TNG have a 7 year journey through the delta quadrant? Did TNG have a borg crew member? Did TNG Go through borg space and get twisted around and have a permanent EMH or go through a pulsar to get rid of aliens? I could go on and on. Think about what you're saying here -__-

Rear Admiral Archer

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Report this Sep. 06 2011, 9:39 am

I thought that VOY in the first season was...dumb. Someone said that it was "rehased TNG". Well I agree somewhat. I think that when it was first starting out, it wanted those fans of TNG and had to do things to fit that perception. Now as time wore on, say around season 4, it had "found itself". Yeah there were episodes that I will not watch again BUT there are some that I loved. Year of Hell I&II were good. Being in the Delta Quadrant, you gotta find something different. The Kazon I think were a stretch, but over all I enjoyed it. My only complaint is how it ended. For 7 yrs we watched and knew at some point it would be over.


But the way it ended was...almost comical to me. Again that's just me and how I felt the first time I watched it. Still all in all it was a good series. Not quite TNG but then again it did hold its own in the long run...

Matthias Russell

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Report this Sep. 06 2011, 9:48 am

Just finished rewatching the first season. A strength for it is the reused actors more often which reinforced that the crew was small and without replacements. After that, small role characters rarely reappeared. Also, only 2 kazon episodes in season 1. I agree season 1 was weak; I think ENT did a better job adhering to its plot and mood.

Captain Rex

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Report this Sep. 06 2011, 12:10 pm

It had it's weak points, but so did every incarnation of Star Trek. They could have done more with the basic plot (Lost and alone in the Delta Quadrent) but, I can see some similarities to TOS. They are both out on the fronteer with little guidence from Starfleet. The captain had to make all the decisions, and, occasionally, the Prime Directive had to be "bent." 


Personally, I think ENTERPRISE was the weakest. The writers threw out ALL the rules and tried to re-create Gene Roddenberry's vision in their own image.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Sep. 06 2011, 2:07 pm

I think ENT was the truest to the concept of TOS and did a good job laying down a foundation for it after the fact. Except for the war on terror plot.

Lazernugget

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Report this Sep. 06 2011, 4:26 pm

Quote: Captain Rex @ Sep. 06 2011, 12:10 pm

>Personally, I think ENTERPRISE was the weakest. The writers threw out ALL the rules and tried to re-create Gene Roddenberry's vision in their own image.

>


 


Yes yes yes. Enterprise was the weakest in my opinion too. I haven't watched it all, but it's just too bent and stretched and twisted. ESPECIALLY because it's in the past.

SeptuagintXXX

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POSTS: 79

Report this Sep. 07 2011, 4:33 am


Voy was pretty campy also.  All the Chokotay episodes were embarrasing to watch.  Right at the beginning you have Janeway doing a vision quest to find her animal guide.  It's completely inane.  Imagine if they did a "christian" or "jewish" espidose, rather than a native american religion.   "oh, I'm sorry Captain, i can't work today. It's the Sabbath, and I have to pray to my tribal desert deity."It's preposterous.


There were some good VOY episodes, like the one with Red Forman from that 70s show and the one with George Costanza.


But the good episodes were offset by the utterly stupid episodes, like the two-parter where the harogin take over Voyager and simulate battles from Earth's history.  It's just such a stupid plot.  At one point, they said that they wanted to redo Wolf 359.  Why would that be of any interest to the Hunters considering the entire battle occurred between one Borg ship and dozens of federation ships?  It seems like the hunters would want to have hand-to-hand combat.


lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Sep. 07 2011, 4:26 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Alright, easy on my Enterprise

>I thought Voyager started stronger than either TNG or DS9. How soon do we forget the first two seasons of those series?

>Lots of great stories in Voyager. Their 2-parters we some of the best in all of trek.

>Some folks want the Maquis to be at constant odds with the Voyager Crew, well their beef was with the Federation, not Star Fleet. It's also illogical in their situation to not become part of the crew. If you want that then watch BSG.

>The only part of Voyager I didn't particularly like were the Kazon. Couldn't wait until we were past them.

>


Word for word.

Ayko

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Report this Sep. 09 2011, 8:35 pm

This is one good reason why it is not the weaker series...



willowtree

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Report this Sep. 14 2011, 6:20 pm

I don't think the OP wants anyone to tell them they're wrong, I think they just want to bash

HisRoyalHighnessTheKing

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Report this Sep. 16 2011, 7:34 am

It was the weakest series, then ENT came along and a new champion was crowned.

Sora

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Report this Sep. 16 2011, 7:55 am

Quote: SeptuagintXXX @ Sep. 05 2011, 1:57 pm

>

>Voyager had the weakest

>1) plot.  They could have done so much with this plot line, but instead almost every episode was generic.  Remember the episode "Darmok" in TNG.  That was a great episode about first contact with a species that had a completley unique method of communication.  In VOY they had instant communication with almost every species.  Almost every species that VOY encountered were generic and uninteresting.  Ultimately they had to resort to the Borg and "the weak shall perish" to keep the fans. 

>2)  crew.  I know that individually VOY had some good character actors.  the Doctor, B'lanna, even Janeway were well acted (for Trek, that is), but the characers themselves were pretty stupid.  Paris was terrible. Chokotay was embarassing.  Neelix was obsequious. Kim was Wesley Crusher.  Seven was eye candy, but poorly acted. And Tuvok.  OMG.  Watching him do his straining-to-maintain-my-emotional-composure bit made me wince.  He would get that raspy voice.  It's pathetic. 

>3)  The sets.  How many freaking episodes did they use that cave set?  Every other episode had the cave set. 

>4)  plot II.  There were no though provoking episodes like there were on other series. There is literally not one episode of VOY that want to rewatch after I've seen it the first time.

>5) rehashed TNG. 

>all right VOY fans, let me have it.

>


 


To each his own, but frankly I think The Original Series is easily the weakest of the Trek series for the exact same reasons you listed. Heck they couldn't even figure out what their pilot episode was, let alone make it a strong one. They had The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before but aired The Man Trap first?


TOS is all over the place, has no real plot. Has no substance. It's a group of people flying through space just because they have nothing better to do. I don't think we even hear about Starfleet or the Federation until well into Season 1, or it might not even be until Season 2.


They focused on Kirk, Spock and Mccoy way too much. They should've let some of the other characters have some screen time too.


Now I will say TOS really does come together in the films. But in the series, it's random, it's all over the place, it's weak. Voyager has a clear and set plot and goal. And yes I'll agree completely that season 1 is weak. Season 1 and 3 I think are both weak. Season 2 is great, Season 4 is great. Season 5 and 6 I think are two of the best seasons of Star Trek and Season 7 isn't quite as good as season 6 but still really good.


Ultimately, I'm just tired of the Voyager sucks threads, and the Enterprise sucks threads. Are you a fan or aren't you?


I'm not saying they have to be your favorite series, but you can at least have the class to not try and trash the series every chance you get.


You can get something good out of every Trek series.


And TOS is my least favorite, but there's still episodes from it that I absolutely love.


Live Long and Prosper

___Lucifer___

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Report this Sep. 16 2011, 6:02 pm

LOL I smell flamebait


 


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