ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Did/should the Defiant class have a long production run?

Report this
Created by: Matthias Russell

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 2:59 pm

The Defiant was the first, if not only, dedicated warship in Starfleet. The prototype entered service filled with problems. In canon, we saw few of them.

Do you think Starfleet built many of them or just a few? After the Dominion War, did production continue or were the existing Defiants mothballed? Why?

Kesfan74656

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1119

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 3:23 pm

WELL..the Excelsior class, with its large nacelles, and 'breakthrough' transwarp drive lost some of its shine, when the latter failed to deliver...but, we've seen that class revived, from the very first ep of TNG, to the other version a la the 1701-B, and on various episodes of DS9. Who's to say the kinks couldn't have been worked out, and production restarted? And it was unique, in its compact size, yet plenty of 'muscle' in its yes, overpowered, as Ben acknowledged in ''The Search'', but, i'd think if she could be revamped, having a craft with that kind of maneuverability and punch would be a wise rescource to have in one's pocket for 'the next big enemy' to come down the pike...


''If I were captain, i'd open every crack in the universe, and peek inside, just like Captain Janeway does''-Kes, ''The Cloud''

lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 3:44 pm

The Prometheus was a better ship with multi-vector assault mode, ablative armor, and regenerative shields. Cloaking devices are copouts.


Anyway, I'm sure Starfleet boosted its production during the Dominion War after O'Brien worked out the kinks. Originally, the Defiant was an abandoned prototype at the time of "The Search", but more Defiant Class Ships appeared by "A Call to Arms". And of course the Sao Paulo was available after the Defiant's destruction. I'm sure technological innovations between 2366 (when the Defiant was originally designed and later abandoned) and 2371 (when it was pulled back into service) helped to resolve many of the design flaws. But the increased appearence of Defiant Class ships throughout DS9's run asserts an increased production. The Defiant Class is small and therefore easily producable. Makes more sense to construct those than Excelsior Class or even Sovereign Class.


The Defiant Class probably enjoyed a long production line following the war, as the Federation worked to build up its Fleet and secure borders.

dryson

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 749

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 4:50 pm

The Defiant Class was a good design, however it's primary military role would have had no use after the Dominion War and should have seen it's numbered drastically reduced. The Defiant Class Starships would serve in the main role as convoy escort and patrol in the outlying regions of Federation Space.


They could still also be used as armed diplomatic transports that could ferry diplomats through hostile space or the starhip could be used to ferry dignitaries who would rather a military vessel transport them from one location to another.


The Defiant Class could be used in many roles.


The class hull design could also be used to create other starships like a short to mid range cargo ship, repair ship or even a training ship for bridge crew to get familar with the flight operations of a starship.


A bullfrog with a light in its belly is nothing more than a glutton looking to shine otherwise.

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 7:34 pm

So you fellas don't think the Defiants should have been retired after the war, that as long as they stayed in service they made Starfleet hypocrits? 


You also don't believe that their production line would have been shut down like those of B-24s and other weapons after WW2?


(I'm asking because I have associates who believe the Defiants had a short production run, are the anti-thesis of star trek and starfleet, and fairly lousy ships.)


lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 8:18 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Aug. 31 2011, 7:34 pm

>

>So you fellas don't think the Defiants should have been retired after the war, that as long as they stayed in service they made Starfleet hypocrits? 

>You also don't believe that their production line would have been shut down like those of B-24s and other weapons after WW2?

>(I'm asking because I have associates who believe the Defiants had a short production run, are the anti-thesis of star trek and starfleet, and fairly lousy ships.)

>


I did forget to mention the "should" part of the question. I concur 100% with your associates. I gave a standing applause when the Breen destroyed the Defiant in "The Changing Face of Evil"... one of the best scenes in DS9's 7th season. I do hope the Defiant Class Ships were quickly retired. I'd even be fine with Section 31 covering up their existence.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46327

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 8:43 pm

How many Defiant class vessels were there?  We know the original Defiant, it's replacement the Sao Paulo and the Valiant.  There were also several others in the different battles during the show.


Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 9:41 pm

Quote: lostshaker @ Aug. 31 2011, 8:18 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Aug. 31 2011, 7:34 pm

>

>

>So you fellas don't think the Defiants should have been retired after the war, that as long as they stayed in service they made Starfleet hypocrits? 

>You also don't believe that their production line would have been shut down like those of B-24s and other weapons after WW2?

>(I'm asking because I have associates who believe the Defiants had a short production run, are the anti-thesis of star trek and starfleet, and fairly lousy ships.)

>

I did forget to mention the "should" part of the question. I concur 100% with your associates. I gave a standing applause when the Breen destroyed the Defiant in "The Changing Face of Evil"... one of the best scenes in DS9's 7th season. I do hope the Defiant Class Ships were quickly retired. I'd even be fine with Section 31 covering up their existence.


 


Why?  And I see no "no" votes.

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 9:42 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Aug. 31 2011, 8:43 pm

>

>How many Defiant class vessels were there?  We know the original Defiant, it's replacement the Sao Paulo and the Valiant.  There were also several others in the different battles during the show.

>


 


So do you think that is all they made or do you believe Starfleet would have made many?

lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 11:12 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Aug. 31 2011, 9:41 pm

Quote: lostshaker @ Aug. 31 2011, 8:18 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Aug. 31 2011, 7:34 pm

>

>

>

>So you fellas don't think the Defiants should have been retired after the war, that as long as they stayed in service they made Starfleet hypocrits? 

>You also don't believe that their production line would have been shut down like those of B-24s and other weapons after WW2?

>(I'm asking because I have associates who believe the Defiants had a short production run, are the anti-thesis of star trek and starfleet, and fairly lousy ships.)

>

I did forget to mention the "should" part of the question. I concur 100% with your associates. I gave a standing applause when the Breen destroyed the Defiant in "The Changing Face of Evil"... one of the best scenes in DS9's 7th season. I do hope the Defiant Class Ships were quickly retired. I'd even be fine with Section 31 covering up their existence.

Why?  And I see no "no" votes.


I haven't voted, because I'm conflicted in the voting. Based on probability and screen evidence, the Defiant Class probably had a long production run. But I hate the ship and so I wish that it got axed after the Dominion War.


I hate the Defiant, because I concur with your friends - it's the antithesis to Star Trek. It's a war ship. Starfleet ships aren't suppose to have cloaking devices. While the Defiant was really the only one that did, it's enough to make me hate the ship. Starfleet doesn't need to go sneaking around the galaxy. I'm an advocate that Starfleet is primarily an exploratoery body with occasional military duties. The Defiant has never sat right with me. I hope that answers the "why?".

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Sep. 01 2011, 7:10 am

Well, I understand the hate for a fed battleship but its canon and sometimes necessity forces you to build things you'd rather not for the greater good. A great thing about the Defiant is it was a dock jockey, leaving only when needed instead of being given a patrol route where it looks provocative. If there are many left after the war, why not dock them at key bases where they can be used for defense when needed?

As for the thought of the size of the production run, don't you think when the ship yards were needed to pump out ships during the war, the small defiant was the ideal ship for mass production, especially since the prometheus was less tested and came late in the war? Or even though starfleet could mass produce the small battleships during the war, did they still prefer their cruisers?

lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Sep. 01 2011, 9:02 am

Well, I understand the hate for a fed battleship but its canon and sometimes necessity forces you to build things you'd rather not for the greater good... As for the thought of the size of the production run, don't you think when the ship yards were needed to pump out ships during the war, the small defiant was the ideal ship for mass production, especially since the prometheus was less tested and came late in the war?


Despite my dislike for the Defiant, I agree with the points above, which echo my positional in the original post. I don't like the Defiant, I hope that it didn't have a long production run, but it's completely logical that it did. It is what it is. The only thing that I don't accept as canon - call it personal canon if you want - is Abrams' movie. As much disdain as I have for the Defiant, Abrams' movie is far worse with it being the antithesis to Star Trek. In fact, Abrams' movie makes the Defiant look like the Enterprise by comparison.


As for the Prometheus, I disagree that it came late into the war. According to memory alpha, the Dominion War was the 6th and 7th seasons of DS9, officially beginning in late 2373 (at the end of season 5) and ending in 2375 respectively. VGR's "Message in a Bottle" took place around DS9's early to mid 6th Season (2374)... so maybe around a quarter to a third into the war. It's important to consider that the Romulans and the Federation engaged one another in "Message in a Bottle". Such a confrontation likely predates the Federation-Romulan Alliance against the Dominion to occur later that year. Now a weakened prototype - the Prometheus - was witnessed to have survived a direct attack by two incoming Defiant Class Vessels, and then moving on to destroy a Romulan Warbird in seconds. It is of course unknown how much the Defiant Class Ships weakened the Romulans prior to the Prometheus' contriubtion. I think the Prometheus was a step up from the Defiant Class. Unfortunately, DS9 never mentioned the Prometheus Class, which would have been cool continuity... just like the use of an Intrepid Class Starship in "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"


 

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Sep. 01 2011, 11:21 am

I'm sure a ship like the Prometheus takes many years to move from prototype to production, even with a war going on. The defiant was developed years before the war. Of course having said that, we have no idea when the Prometheus concept started, but its prototype was years behind the Defiant. Interesting thing about the Prometheus is you build it in 3 parts so the spaceframe probably takes less time to build. Compared to a similarly sized cruiser anyway, not the Defiant.

Dralek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 224

Report this Sep. 01 2011, 1:10 pm

Given the losses suffered in the Dominion War, small warships like the Defiant would have been a sensible step in returning the fleet to full strength.  The larger the ship built, the larger the shipyard and amount of resources required to do the job.  Starfleet could send many of these ships out to patrol their territory while the larger craft were still under construction.


One would hope Starfleet would view the Dominion as merely one of many possible threats in the Gamma Quadrant.  In doing so, they would acknowledge (hopefully) that a small, well-armed, cloak-capable craft might serve better to explore possibly hostile territory than a larger vessel.


To assume that warships are needless at the end of a war (in which their value was proven) would be to leave themselves vulnerable, not just to unknown threats in unexplored space but to the unforseen developments which could feasibly occur at any time among their militaristic neighbors, the Klingons and the Romulans.

lligevets

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 777

Report this Sep. 01 2011, 1:42 pm


 I think they would continue the production. It seems the further star fleet reaches into space the more threats and conflicts they seem to get involved with. Giving one example - the knowledge obtained by Voyager in the delta quadrant the borg and species 8472 have the ability to show up anytime I think the Federation would be more proactive in their defense.

Recently logged in

Users browsing this forum: heronymous

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum