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What is the most Overrated Star Trek Series?

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Created by: Sora

Sora

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Report this Aug. 30 2011, 7:59 pm

When I say TOS is overrated, I don't mean it's bad in any way. TOS does rock. I think all of the Trek series rock. I was merely trying to explain why I feel the other series are stronger than the original.

rocketscientist

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Report this Aug. 31 2011, 8:29 am

Quote: Sora @ Aug. 30 2011, 6:57 pm

Quote: rocketscientist @ Aug. 29 2011, 7:47 am

Quote: Sora @ Aug. 25 2011, 1:20 pm

>

>

>

>Yeah I can definitely agree that TNG is pretty over-rated. But TOS gets just as much hype as TNG,

>

Because it's a television classic and because it spawned an entire television and motion picture franchise, novels, comics, etc.

 

and I feel that TOS is more over-rated for the exact same reasons as what many have said about TOS.

?

It's too 60's, it's too dated.

TNG was too 80s.  What's the difference?  For me, that's part of ST's (TOS's) appeal.  I love the Matt Jeffries Enterprise designs and the low-budget look of the show.  They showed a lot of creativity and artistry despite having a much more meager budget compared to TNG's.

It's too random and all over the place.

So was TNG, VOY, and ENT.  

TOS has many characters that rarely if ever get an episode about them.

Because it wasn't an ensemble show.  That wasn't the style of TV at the time.  You could just as well say that that what was made it better, because, honestly, I wasn't that interested in Sulu, Uhura, or Chekov.  Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Scotty are my favorites.

The series has no specific or tangible plot line like all the other series do.

TNG didn't have a specific or tangible plot line either.

It's just something random every week.

Again, like TNG.

TNG at least had some specific story lines going on each year that were focused on.

No, it didn't.  They did have a bit of serialized or recurring storylines, but there were never ongoing arcs like there were on DS9 and later on ENT. 

And even minor characters got attention.

Sure, they got attention, but honestly, I didn't really care if I knew more about Geordi, Crusher, Troi, etc. 

In TOS the only characters who ever get any major screen time is Kirk, Spock and Mccoy. And yes those characters are great, but I would've liked to have seen a more equal series and have every character get their share of episodes.

Why? Honestly, I was fine not knowing much about Uhura, Sulu, and Chekov.  The only one of the supporting characters I really love is Scotty.  And it's no different from TNG, despite it being more of an ensemble show.  There weren't that many episodes centered around LaForge or Crusher or Troi or even Riker.  There were far more episodes about Picard, Data, and Worf because most of the fans liked these characters more than the others and the writers responded to that and wrote for them. 

 I tend to prefer DS9, Voyager and Enterprise the most because those 3 series IMO are the ones that are truely about something.

TOS was about something:  The 5-year mission of exploration of the USS Enterprise.  TNG was similar in that regard.

TOS and to a degree TNG are about the random planet of the week. DS9 is about Bajor and the Cardassian occupation and the Dominion and gets really deep.

So what's wrong with "the random planet of the week."  That can be a strength, since it's easier to get new viewers.   DS9's serialized storyline became an impediment to getting new viewers. 

Voyager has a very set and clear goal, to get home.

So what if it had a goal?  It was still treated in all ways as TNG v2.  Effectively VOY = TNG.

 Enterprise is also great, their goal is to learn how to survive in space and learn how to deal with intersteller travel.

Like TOS.

And then later to deal with the Xindi and the Klingons and the Romulans.

With the exception of the Xindi reference, you could say the same for TOS.

 

 

Am I still forbidden to dare question your never ending wisdom to attack any comment or opinion you don't happen to like with idiotic child like arguments???

 


What the heck are you talking about?


Number 1, I really don't want to hear about how "I want to discuss the franchise but attack you anytime you make the attempt"


How and where did I attack you here??!?!?


If anything you attack me at every opportunity because I simply have far different views than you do.


Again, how have I attacked you here?  For that matter, where have I attacked you any where else?!?!?  What the heck are you talking about?  I don't even know you and you don't know me.


I've read over your comments on each thing you made mention to, do you not notice that nearly each time you make a comment, you base it off of the way YOU want things. It's not all about you. There are other people in the world. You need to get off your throne and quit acting like anyone who doesn't say what you want is just wrong.


What a load of crap.  I don't feel that way at all.  Wow, I'm not the only person in this world, what a huge revelation!  Wow, I need to get off my throne!!  Incredible!  What insight you have! 


You are completely and utterly wrong about me and, worse, you're talking crap about me when this is supposed to be a board to discuss the ST franchise, not how you feel about me, someone you don't even know btw.   


You on the other hand, acted like a 5 year old just now.


I did?  How so?  Look what you just wrote.  The only one acting like a kid is you.  


Because you get angry anytime anyone says anything about TOS that you don't like.


Now you're projecting.  You get angry anytime anyone says anything about TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT or whatever you don't like.  And then you personally attack their character, like you just did here.  And that's explicitly against the rules here, btw.


I get a little angry when someone talks crap about me, not TOS, which is what you just did here. 


 And to most of my statements, you didn't actually add anything at all to the table, all you did each time was defend TOS by saying "TNG did it too" Voyager and Enterprise did it too.


Well, sorry, but the truth is they did.  And pointing that out demonstrates the application of a double standard.  I believe that was entirely relevant  to the discussion.


What kind of defense is that?


Already explained.  I would think it would be clear.


I understand that you love TOS that's fine. But making statements like you don't care about anyone in TOS other than Kirk, Spock, Mccoy and Scotty, that's all YOU wanted out of the show. You make those statements as if that's the way it is because that's the way YOU want it.


Everyone makes statements about the stuff they want or liked from the franchise, including yourself.  They're called personal opinions.  What the heck is wrong with that? 


Can you not see just how self-obsorbed and insecure that is?


Honestly, no, I can't.  Everyone does it, including you.


To make everything specifically about yourself, and then to actually forbid someone to question you while you go about questioning them? Cozy little arrangement....you don't have to win every argument just to feel confident.


I'm fine with discussing ST, just don't resort to personal attacks like you just did, especially when it's talking utter crap about me.  Blatant lies, demonizations, and personal attacks just reflect badly on yourself, you know.


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 4:08 pm

Quote: rocketscientist @ Aug. 31 2011, 8:29 am

Quote: Sora @ Aug. 30 2011, 6:57 pm

Quote: rocketscientist @ Aug. 29 2011, 7:47 am

Quote: Sora @ Aug. 25 2011, 1:20 pm

>

>

>

>

>Yeah I can definitely agree that TNG is pretty over-rated. But TOS gets just as much hype as TNG,

>

Because it's a television classic and because it spawned an entire television and motion picture franchise, novels, comics, etc.

 

and I feel that TOS is more over-rated for the exact same reasons as what many have said about TOS.

?

It's too 60's, it's too dated.

TNG was too 80s.  What's the difference?  For me, that's part of ST's (TOS's) appeal.  I love the Matt Jeffries Enterprise designs and the low-budget look of the show.  They showed a lot of creativity and artistry despite having a much more meager budget compared to TNG's.

It's too random and all over the place.

So was TNG, VOY, and ENT.  

TOS has many characters that rarely if ever get an episode about them.

Because it wasn't an ensemble show.  That wasn't the style of TV at the time.  You could just as well say that that what was made it better, because, honestly, I wasn't that interested in Sulu, Uhura, or Chekov.  Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Scotty are my favorites.

The series has no specific or tangible plot line like all the other series do.

TNG didn't have a specific or tangible plot line either.

It's just something random every week.

Again, like TNG.

TNG at least had some specific story lines going on each year that were focused on.

No, it didn't.  They did have a bit of serialized or recurring storylines, but there were never ongoing arcs like there were on DS9 and later on ENT. 

And even minor characters got attention.

Sure, they got attention, but honestly, I didn't really care if I knew more about Geordi, Crusher, Troi, etc. 

In TOS the only characters who ever get any major screen time is Kirk, Spock and Mccoy. And yes those characters are great, but I would've liked to have seen a more equal series and have every character get their share of episodes.

Why? Honestly, I was fine not knowing much about Uhura, Sulu, and Chekov.  The only one of the supporting characters I really love is Scotty.  And it's no different from TNG, despite it being more of an ensemble show.  There weren't that many episodes centered around LaForge or Crusher or Troi or even Riker.  There were far more episodes about Picard, Data, and Worf because most of the fans liked these characters more than the others and the writers responded to that and wrote for them. 

 I tend to prefer DS9, Voyager and Enterprise the most because those 3 series IMO are the ones that are truely about something.

TOS was about something:  The 5-year mission of exploration of the USS Enterprise.  TNG was similar in that regard.

TOS and to a degree TNG are about the random planet of the week. DS9 is about Bajor and the Cardassian occupation and the Dominion and gets really deep.

So what's wrong with "the random planet of the week."  That can be a strength, since it's easier to get new viewers.   DS9's serialized storyline became an impediment to getting new viewers. 

Voyager has a very set and clear goal, to get home.

So what if it had a goal?  It was still treated in all ways as TNG v2.  Effectively VOY = TNG.

 Enterprise is also great, their goal is to learn how to survive in space and learn how to deal with intersteller travel.

Like TOS.

And then later to deal with the Xindi and the Klingons and the Romulans.

With the exception of the Xindi reference, you could say the same for TOS.

 

 

Am I still forbidden to dare question your never ending wisdom to attack any comment or opinion you don't happen to like with idiotic child like arguments???

 

What the heck are you talking about?

Number 1, I really don't want to hear about how "I want to discuss the franchise but attack you anytime you make the attempt"

How and where did I attack you here??!?!?

If anything you attack me at every opportunity because I simply have far different views than you do.

Again, how have I attacked you here?  For that matter, where have I attacked you any where else?!?!?  What the heck are you talking about?  I don't even know you and you don't know me.

I've read over your comments on each thing you made mention to, do you not notice that nearly each time you make a comment, you base it off of the way YOU want things. It's not all about you. There are other people in the world. You need to get off your throne and quit acting like anyone who doesn't say what you want is just wrong.

What a load of crap.  I don't feel that way at all.  Wow, I'm not the only person in this world, what a huge revelation!  Wow, I need to get off my throne!!  Incredible!  What insight you have! 

You are completely and utterly wrong about me and, worse, you're talking crap about me when this is supposed to be a board to discuss the ST franchise, not how you feel about me, someone you don't even know btw.   

You on the other hand, acted like a 5 year old just now.

I did?  How so?  Look what you just wrote.  The only one acting like a kid is you.  

Because you get angry anytime anyone says anything about TOS that you don't like.

Now you're projecting.  You get angry anytime anyone says anything about TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT or whatever you don't like.  And then you personally attack their character, like you just did here.  And that's explicitly against the rules here, btw.

I get a little angry when someone talks crap about me, not TOS, which is what you just did here. 

 And to most of my statements, you didn't actually add anything at all to the table, all you did each time was defend TOS by saying "TNG did it too" Voyager and Enterprise did it too.

Well, sorry, but the truth is they did.  And pointing that out demonstrates the application of a double standard.  I believe that was entirely relevant  to the discussion.

What kind of defense is that?

Already explained.  I would think it would be clear.

I understand that you love TOS that's fine. But making statements like you don't care about anyone in TOS other than Kirk, Spock, Mccoy and Scotty, that's all YOU wanted out of the show. You make those statements as if that's the way it is because that's the way YOU want it.

Everyone makes statements about the stuff they want or liked from the franchise, including yourself.  They're called personal opinions.  What the heck is wrong with that? 

Can you not see just how self-obsorbed and insecure that is?

Honestly, no, I can't.  Everyone does it, including you.

To make everything specifically about yourself, and then to actually forbid someone to question you while you go about questioning them? Cozy little arrangement....you don't have to win every argument just to feel confident.

I'm fine with discussing ST, just don't resort to personal attacks like you just did, especially when it's talking utter crap about me.  Blatant lies, demonizations, and personal attacks just reflect badly on yourself, you know.

 


 


Alright, may I ask how I have told blatent lies about you?


Do you not remember when you told me specifically not to ever quote you or question you again or you'd report me??


And perhaps I've just gotten the wrong idea when i've read some of your other posts, but you appear to me to get hostile if anyone says anything good about anything other than TOS.


Now it's possible that I misunderstood or you just come on strongly. If so I apologize, I never intended attack TOS or anything like that. I love TOS. But I just simply love some of the other Star Trek series more.


And yes that is my opinion that TOS is overrated. And I'm sorry if that offends you. But by overrated, I don't mean that it's bad. I love it, I really do. All I meant was that I feel that some of the other series are stronger than TOS. This is merely my opinion, this is not a fact. I really do enjoy TOS. I love Kirk, spock and Mccoy and Scotty, but I do with we could've seen more of the other characters. I do like that the other series have more of a set and clear goal and or plot. And yes I agree TOS AND TNG are very similar. But TNG does have more drawn out plots than TOS. This doesn't make TOS a bad series, it's just my personal opinion, that you should take with a grain of salt, that having more plots come up more than once and having some minor arcs here and there makes for a stronger series. But that being said, i love tos. I have all 3 seasons of it, plus the animated series and all 6 Tos films.


 


I hope that we can discuss this rationally and politely from here on out.


Live Long and Prosper

rocketscientist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10054

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 4:58 pm

 


Alright, may I ask how I have told blatent lies about you?


See the above comments regarding my character.  I'm not like that.


Do you not remember when you told me specifically not to ever quote you or question you again or you'd report me??


Honestly, I must have forgotten. A lot has happened the past few months.  I became a dad to two twins, was hospitalized due to a life-threatening infection, and have been working hard on finishing an 86 page long technical report.  I haven't paid much attention to this board at all.


And perhaps I've just gotten the wrong idea when i've read some of your other posts, but you appear to me to get hostile if anyone says anything good about anything other than TOS.


That's just not true.  I've said many many times that I'm a fan of TNG, DS9, and yes, even VOY in addition to TOS.  I've never been hostile to anyone regarding their likes or dislikes of a series.  Ever.


I hope that we can discuss this rationally and politely from here on out.


Fine.


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 6:34 pm

Quote: rocketscientist @ Aug. 31 2011, 4:58 pm

>

>Alright, may I ask how I have told blatent lies about you?

>See the above comments regarding my character.  I'm not like that.

>Do you not remember when you told me specifically not to ever quote you or question you again or you'd report me??

>Honestly, I must have forgotten. A lot has happened the past few months.  I became a dad to two twins, was hospitalized due to a life-threatening infection, and have been working hard on finishing an 86 page long technical report.  I haven't paid much attention to this board at all.

>And perhaps I've just gotten the wrong idea when i've read some of your other posts, but you appear to me to get hostile if anyone says anything good about anything other than TOS.

>That's just not true.  I've said many many times that I'm a fan of TNG, DS9, and yes, even VOY in addition to TOS.  I've never been hostile to anyone regarding their likes or dislikes of a series.  Ever.

>I hope that we can discuss this rationally and politely from here on out.

>Fine.

>


 


That being said, I am curious, since you don't care for Enterprise, what do you think would've made Enterprie great?


Live Long and Prosper

rocketscientist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10054

Report this Aug. 31 2011, 10:25 pm

Quote: Sora @ Aug. 31 2011, 6:34 pm

Quote: rocketscientist @ Aug. 31 2011, 4:58 pm

>

>

>Alright, may I ask how I have told blatent lies about you?

>See the above comments regarding my character.  I'm not like that.

>Do you not remember when you told me specifically not to ever quote you or question you again or you'd report me??

>Honestly, I must have forgotten. A lot has happened the past few months.  I became a dad to two twins, was hospitalized due to a life-threatening infection, and have been working hard on finishing an 86 page long technical report.  I haven't paid much attention to this board at all.

>And perhaps I've just gotten the wrong idea when i've read some of your other posts, but you appear to me to get hostile if anyone says anything good about anything other than TOS.

>That's just not true.  I've said many many times that I'm a fan of TNG, DS9, and yes, even VOY in addition to TOS.  I've never been hostile to anyone regarding their likes or dislikes of a series.  Ever.

>I hope that we can discuss this rationally and politely from here on out.

>Fine.

>

 

That being said, I am curious, since you don't care for Enterprise, what do you think would've made Enterprie great?


Honestly, I haven't seen enough of ENT to really form an opinion on it.  I'm trying to keep an open mind.  I might get around to seeing it one of these days. 


I will say that the initial episodes I did see just did not grab my interest at all.  I think it was largely due to burnout after VOY, which I lost interest in after season 6.  I was just tired of the risk-adverse Berman-trek.  I felt that VOY had largely been an imitation of TNG, though with a cast I didn't like nearly as much (with the exception of Seven and the Doctor), and after 13 seasons of Berman/TNG-Trek, I just felt like I had had enough.  ENT looked to me from those initial episodes to be just more of the same, so I just stopped watching it. 


Ghostmojo and others have said ENT is better than VOY and I'm inclined to believe them.  It would not surprise me at all if, after watching it, I found that I preferred it to VOY. 


As to what would have made it great, I think the most obvious answer is if it had others in charge instead of Berman and Braga.  Manny Coto sounds like he had the right idea, building a bridge to TOS.  That it what I wanted and was hoping to see with ENT.  I just did not see that or get that TOS-like feel from the initial episodes.  I just thought it looked and felt like TNG all over again, which isn't surprising, since that was Berman's high-water mark and Paramount wanted ENT to be like TNG too (hence the transporter). 


I also didn't care for naming the ship "Enterprise," the whole future guy thing (more recycled stuff from TNG and VOY), the jerk Vulcans and the like.  The show just did not feel like it fit in with TOS. 


But, again, it really wasn't that I found ENT bad, it's more like I found it's initial episodes to just be uninteresting.  I felt like I'd seen years of it before and I guess I just wasn't interested enough to keep watching at that point.  I had other things I was more interested in.


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Sep. 01 2011, 8:24 am

Quote: rocketscientist @ Aug. 31 2011, 10:25 pm

Quote: Sora @ Aug. 31 2011, 6:34 pm

Quote: rocketscientist @ Aug. 31 2011, 4:58 pm

>

>

>

>Alright, may I ask how I have told blatent lies about you?

>See the above comments regarding my character.  I'm not like that.

>Do you not remember when you told me specifically not to ever quote you or question you again or you'd report me??

>Honestly, I must have forgotten. A lot has happened the past few months.  I became a dad to two twins, was hospitalized due to a life-threatening infection, and have been working hard on finishing an 86 page long technical report.  I haven't paid much attention to this board at all.

>And perhaps I've just gotten the wrong idea when i've read some of your other posts, but you appear to me to get hostile if anyone says anything good about anything other than TOS.

>That's just not true.  I've said many many times that I'm a fan of TNG, DS9, and yes, even VOY in addition to TOS.  I've never been hostile to anyone regarding their likes or dislikes of a series.  Ever.

>I hope that we can discuss this rationally and politely from here on out.

>Fine.

>

 

That being said, I am curious, since you don't care for Enterprise, what do you think would've made Enterprie great?

Honestly, I haven't seen enough of ENT to really form an opinion on it.  I'm trying to keep an open mind.  I might get around to seeing it one of these days. 

I will say that the initial episodes I did see just did not grab my interest at all.  I think it was largely due to burnout after VOY, which I lost interest in after season 6.  I was just tired of the risk-adverse Berman-trek.  I felt that VOY had largely been an imitation of TNG, though with a cast I didn't like nearly as much (with the exception of Seven and the Doctor), and after 13 seasons of Berman/TNG-Trek, I just felt like I had had enough.  ENT looked to me from those initial episodes to be just more of the same, so I just stopped watching it. 

Ghostmojo and others have said ENT is better than VOY and I'm inclined to believe them.  It would not surprise me at all if, after watching it, I found that I preferred it to VOY. 

As to what would have made it great, I think the most obvious answer is if it had others in charge instead of Berman and Braga.  Manny Coto sounds like he had the right idea, building a bridge to TOS.  That it what I wanted and was hoping to see with ENT.  I just did not see that or get that TOS-like feel from the initial episodes.  I just thought it looked and felt like TNG all over again, which isn't surprising, since that was Berman's high-water mark and Paramount wanted ENT to be like TNG too (hence the transporter). 

I also didn't care for naming the ship "Enterprise," the whole future guy thing (more recycled stuff from TNG and VOY), the jerk Vulcans and the like.  The show just did not feel like it fit in with TOS. 

But, again, it really wasn't that I found ENT bad, it's more like I found it's initial episodes to just be uninteresting.  I felt like I'd seen years of it before and I guess I just wasn't interested enough to keep watching at that point.  I had other things I was more interested in.

 


 


All reasonable points.


If you do decide to watch all 4 seasons one day, Season 1 and 2 might feel somewhat like TNG. But Season 3 I think very unique and Season 4 really does start getting closer to TOS. It's a shame there was no 5th season because Season 4 really started to connect the dots as it were.


Most fans enjoy season 4 the most. I enjoy all 4.


I don't mind that it doesn't start out feeling like TOS because I think they wanted it to have more of a First Contact feel. Which I think it did. To me that made sense because chronologically, it wasn't that long after, but still a good bit before TOS. I liked the stuck up Vulcans, because it showed that there was a time when they were less than perfect. I just thought that was cool.


But if and when you give it a try. Season 3 is really awesome. It's a 24 episode arc which is fantastic. And like I said, Season 4 really starts doing alot of TOS style episodes.


Live Long and Prosper

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