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Star Trek Nemesis: 9 years later

guillermo.mejía

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POSTS: 2852

Report this Jun. 12 2011, 10:01 am

Recently I sat down to watch Nemesis with Rick Berman's Commentary on, since I released I'd never done so, and besides learning that doing so may be the most boring commentary on Trek ever, I didn't really understand why the movie is remembered is such a negative light.


The story, for one, is rather solid, as it parallels Picard and Data's situations nicely, specially in the scene between Picard and Data where they address it. It also does a rather decent job of being this crews swan song.


The acting is top notch as always, with Patrick Stuwart acting his heart out to sell Tom hardy as his clone. This is were I find a little fail, as I never fully embraced Shinzon as Picard's clone. As cheesy as it may sound, perhaps some kind of flashback could have helped more than just a picture.


I think that this movie did badly mostly because of when it came out. By now this crew has been around since 1987. Technically they've been around longer than any other crew in Trek history, since the TOS crew was on for three years, then took a break and appeared for two seasons in TAS, then took another break before the movies. Also INS had come by and disappointed some fans. Perhaps TNG just needed a break, or perhaps needed to end sooner? In any case, Nemesis wasn't as bad as most remember it in my opinion and unfortunate that it did so badly in theaters.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jun. 12 2011, 5:37 pm

Wow!  Has it already been 9 years?


guillermo.mejía

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Report this Jun. 12 2011, 6:09 pm

2002 to 2011. My, how time flies.


I remember dragging my parents and bro to see this movie (since I was still a kid back then) and being the only one who came out of the theater really liking the movie. My bro was split, my mom sad that Data died, and my stepdad has always been a TOS man.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

2takesfrakes

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POSTS: 3683

Report this Jun. 13 2011, 6:57 am

The cast is allowed to look every bit of their age - Marina
really looks like Shat. So Shinzon's instant obsession with
her is truly bizarre. Let's face it, Troi is looking motherly,
these days. Maybe never having had a mother is what's
behind it. But Shinzon's smart enough to work it out that the
ENTERPRISE might very well have young, human wymin aboard.


But, if TNG was too much of a gentleman to treat L'waxana like
she's a Granny, then there's no way Deanna was going to be ...


Treknoir

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POSTS: 1784

Report this Jun. 13 2011, 7:20 am

Quote: 2takesfrakes @ Jun. 13 2011, 6:57 am

>

>The cast is allowed to look every bit of their age - Marina
really looks like Shat. So Shinzon's instant obsession with
her is truly bizarre. Let's face it, Troi is looking motherly,
these days. Maybe never having had a mother is what's
behind it. But Shinzon's smart enough to work it out that the
ENTERPRISE might very well have young, human wymin aboard.

>But, if TNG was too much of a gentleman to treat L'waxana like
she's a Granny, then there's no way Deanna was going to be ...

>


I know I shouldn't laugh, but . . .


 


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Kornula

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POSTS: 1676

Report this Jun. 13 2011, 8:18 am

This is, hands down, the second worst Trek film.   Rick Berman and Paramount are so cheap and lazy, they plagerized their own franchise.  This is nothing but a poor copy of Wrath of Khan

CloakedTerror

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Report this Jun. 14 2011, 12:14 am

Wow, I cannot believe it's been nine years!  I remember going to see it with a friend on opening night, and then again later in the month with some family members.  I actually like Nemesis and don't really have a problem with it.  It was, in my opinion, a much better way to finish the TNG films, instead of ending it with Insurrection.  Some of the things I liked about it:


1) Dinah Meyer makes a pretty hot Romulan woman.  Her eyes are gorgeous!


2) Riker and Troi finally getting married and Picard's best man speech (which I really liked and thought it was vintage Picard)


3) Admiral Janeway: "How'd you like a trip to Romulus?"


    Picard: "With or without the rest of the fleet?"


4) Data: "It appears to be a robotic arm."


    Worf: "Very astute!"


Followed by the whole driving off the cliff and landing in the shuttle sequence.


5) Picard and Data escaping from the Scimitar.


6) The whole final space battle was pretty epic.  The Scimitar blasting out the front of the Enterprise bridge and the helmsman getting sucked out into space before the forcefield goes up.  The new Warbirds showing up to help.  The Enterprise ramming the Scimitar.  Picard beaming over to take matters into his own hands and wasting everyone in his path.  Data having to "fly" over to the Scimitar.  I thought all of this was rather bad ass. 


7) Riker: "Serving with you...has been an honor."


    Picard: "The honor was mine....Captain."


Sure Nemesis has it's flaws, but I wouldn't say it was horrible.  There are certainly things they could have done better, but I think on the whole it was an enjoyable Trek film.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Jun. 14 2011, 5:13 am

To a fair degree, I enjoy Star Trek: Nemesis. I think it's leaps-and-bounds better than Insurrection and at least somewhat better than Generations.


I don't have the same tired nit-picks that most people have:


-Data dying


-Where did B4 come from?


-Picard's clone


etc. etc. etc.


None of that stuff really bothers me. My biggest issue is a little more deep. What logical sense does it make that a group of Romulan millitary leaders and politicians would support a coup by a human clone and a race considered to be a bunch of inferior slaves all in the name of defeating the UFP, only to back out at the last minute because they don't want to commit genocide?


I mean, they murder nearly the entire political body of Romulus to obtain power, apparently to take advantage of Shinzon's thaleron weapon and defeat the Federation. But, suddenly, Shinzon is a d!ck to Donotra, and now she's having second thoughts...and everyone just backs down? So, now you have a commander who supported a mass-murder of her entire government all for the chance to defeat the Federation rushing in to battle to defend the Enterprise and trading happy-face quips like "let's share a Romulan Ale after this one Captain" and being all noble and friendly after the battle? '


Nope, that's illogical.  


 

2takesfrakes

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Report this Jun. 14 2011, 3:22 pm

EXACTLY! When Shinzon was thinning the Romulan herd
and not just planning - but preparing - to Death Star
the entire Earth, she wanted to rape him at a moment's
notice. But when he rejects her and roughs her up a little,
NOW it's all so terribly WRONG! Emancipating her mind just
enough to convince a Romulan cohort that if they go ahead
with this plan, kids of the future will think they're uncool.


But had Shinzon kissed her all up and every which way, the
Federation would have one less member now, that's for sure!
And future Romulans will just have to learn to live with it.


... Wymin.


guillermo.mejía

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POSTS: 2852

Report this Jun. 14 2011, 8:00 pm

What logical sense does it make that a group of Romulan millitary leaders and politicians would support a coup by a human clone and a race considered to be a bunch of inferior slaves all in the name of defeating the UFP, only to back out at the last minute because they don't want to commit genocide?


This and trying to pass off Tom Hardy as young Picard are really my only two beefs with this film.


Even as a kid not well versed in TNG lore I could wrap my head around why the Romulan military would back Shinzon. If perhaps the script laid out that the Remans staged a coup right after the Dominion War when they had much mobility, that would make sense. Even perhaps that the Romulan Fleet was decimated and the Reman just muscled in.


As for Data's death, much like Spock's it was the actors wish, so I respect it and have no issues with it at all. It was a good death after all.


Let's see what else I read....Ah Yes! Deanna "Getting up there" Troi. This one is also something I don't have an isse with, and I don't see why people would either. It's the first human female Shinzon ever sees up close. And Troi can still wear the strafleet uniform nicely, no doubt, so lets assume his lust just goes off. The only quirk here is that Rumulans don't look THAT different, and I've seen plenty good looking Romulan and Vulcan women. But this isn't really worth getting worked up over.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

2takesfrakes

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Report this Jun. 15 2011, 1:21 am

Kornula

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Report this Jun. 15 2011, 10:05 am

Am I the only Trek fan who sees the blatent (cheap) copy of Wrath of Khan here??

2takesfrakes

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Report this Jun. 15 2011, 11:21 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>Let that be a real-life lesson to all men!

>How quickly women turn, especially when they think you're gay or obssessed over another woman.

>Shinzon deserved everything he got, I'm with you my Romulan sister


I think Tom Hardy's gay and Shinzon's
certainly obsessed. I guess you win.


Kornula
Yes. Nemesis borrows from Khan.
STAR TREK 2009 did the same.
This franchise is a recycler.
THE MOTION PICTURE lifted from
at least one TOS episode, though
computers getting smart is often
repeated in STAR TREK. I'm not a
fan of it, but they use what works.


Kornula

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POSTS: 1676

Report this Jun. 15 2011, 11:24 am

In Nemsis case, it failed miserably

guillermo.mejía

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POSTS: 2852

Report this Jun. 15 2011, 5:14 pm

Quote: Kornula @ Jun. 15 2011, 10:05 am

>

>Am I the only Trek fan who sees the blatent (cheap) copy of Wrath of Khan here??

>
Blatent? I don't know how you can see that.


I do see how you can find similarities, with both movies having a theme of death about them, as well as dealing with old age, and an aspect of one's past coming back to haunt you.


If you look at both movies superficially, then yeah, you can say that; but again, you are only going skin deep into Nemesis if that's the case.


 


And even if that was the (un)intentional case, why does that upset you so? It was the most succesful Trek film so it only makes sense for studio big-wigs to repeat succesful formulas. It's how Hollywood works.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

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