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Odo said ST09 reboot was necessary

Treknoir

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POSTS: 1784

Report this Jun. 09 2011, 10:20 am

http://trekmovie.com/2011/06/08/rene-auberjonois-enterprise-copied-from-star-trek-ds9-shows-need-for-star-trek-2009/


"I was sitting with Scott Bakula at lunch about two or three days into shooting the episode. He said, “I like this script. I think this is a good one.” I said, “Yeah, we did this one in season three.” And he looked at me and said, “What?” I said, “It was the same sort of story.” That was not really a putdown, but when you’ve done that many years of writing stories, there will be recurring themes. I think that’s one of the reasons why I thought the new feature film really sort of broke the mold. It was time for new minds to come in and new conceptions to happen, and I think it’s absolutely revitalized the whole franchise. I have that sense now when I got to conventions, that even though ours is an old show that was done years ago, the new energy brought to the franchise by the last feature film has rekindled people’s passions for the whole Star Trek world."


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Jun. 09 2011, 11:36 am

I rarely agree with actors on what the best episodes are, I certainly don't agree with one on this.  Many of the DS9ers say their favorite DS9 episode was the Vegas caper.  Most of us would disagree.  I think performers have a completely different perspective sometimes from those of us who watch.


Was a reboot necessary? No.  Was it necessary to boot the guys in charge?  Yes.

Treknoir

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POSTS: 1784

Report this Jun. 09 2011, 12:10 pm

We'll agree to disagree up front. I think change was VERY necessary.


Not sure if this makes sense to anyone but me, but I feel that ST became more about ST and less about telling a good story. The same formula with minor tweaks over and over again.


Was ST09 the only way to shake things up? No. But I like what I have seen, so far. I hope the next two movies will keep up the momentum.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Vger23

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Report this Jun. 09 2011, 1:41 pm

Quote: Treknoir @ Jun. 09 2011, 12:10 pm

>

>We'll agree to disagree up front. I think change was VERY necessary.

>Not sure if this makes sense to anyone but me, but I feel that ST became more about ST and less about telling a good story. The same formula with minor tweaks over and over again.

>Was ST09 the only way to shake things up? No. But I like what I have seen, so far. I hope the next two movies will keep up the momentum.

>


 


That may be one of the most straight-forward, direct ways of saying exactly how I feel too (particularly the part I bolded). Well done.


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Treknoir

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Report this Jun. 09 2011, 2:24 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ Jun. 09 2011, 1:41 pm

Quote: Treknoir @ Jun. 09 2011, 12:10 pm

>

>

>We'll agree to disagree up front. I think change was VERY necessary.

>Not sure if this makes sense to anyone but me, but I feel that ST became more about ST and less about telling a good story. The same formula with minor tweaks over and over again.

>Was ST09 the only way to shake things up? No. But I like what I have seen, so far. I hope the next two movies will keep up the momentum.

>

That may be one of the most straight-forward, direct ways of saying exactly how I feel too (particularly the part I bolded). Well done.


I'm glad it made sense to someone else. LOL I know we go around and around on these boards about what ST is or is not, but, IMO, ST is first and foremost a work of fiction. A story. It's not a belief, philosophy, religion, vision, process, or guide.


Folks were so devoted to canon and visions that the story, the heart, grew cold.


Even if one hates ST09, it gave the franchise much deserved notice and perhaps drew in new fans. Fans who will, hopefully, give the rest of the series, movies, and books a chance. Fans who will want more ST.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

guillermo.mejía

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POSTS: 2852

Report this Jun. 09 2011, 4:20 pm

Made sense to me!


It was only a matter of time before a major shake up of Trek happened. Its the natural order of things once they reach a certain age. Look at characters like Batman or sotories like Robin Hood. Ove time they are reinterpreted in various ways by people who like it and keep it going.


Nowadays, the kids who see Bale's Batman as THE Batman may scoff and even hate Adam West's 1966 Batman, but in the 60's his impact was huge and helped spread the Batman name like never before.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

Beersnark

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POSTS: 509

Report this Jun. 09 2011, 6:22 pm

Quote: Treknoir @ Jun. 09 2011, 2:24 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ Jun. 09 2011, 1:41 pm

Quote: Treknoir @ Jun. 09 2011, 12:10 pm

>

>

>

>We'll agree to disagree up front. I think change was VERY necessary.

>Not sure if this makes sense to anyone but me, but I feel that ST became more about ST and less about telling a good story. The same formula with minor tweaks over and over again.

>Was ST09 the only way to shake things up? No. But I like what I have seen, so far. I hope the next two movies will keep up the momentum.

>

That may be one of the most straight-forward, direct ways of saying exactly how I feel too (particularly the part I bolded). Well done.

I'm glad it made sense to someone else. LOL I know we go around and around on these boards about what ST is or is not, but, IMO, ST is first and foremost a work of fiction. A story. It's not a belief, philosophy, religion, vision, process, or guide.

Folks were so devoted to canon and visions that the story, the heart, grew cold.

Even if one hates ST09, it gave the franchise much deserved notice and perhaps drew in new fans. Fans who will, hopefully, give the rest of the series, movies, and books a chance. Fans who will want more ST.


I whole-heartedly agree with all of the above. I think the new time line opens up all new possabilities. They can do the "what if" stories about characters whe already know ( I would love to see Harry Mudd again!) Or they can do entirely new stuff. I proplems with ST09 are about production( get rid of all those light flairs), sets andf locations (really? a brewery?) and some of the casting.


If you dissagree, that's fine, just refer to my signature line.


"These people are natural born idiots."-Neelix

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Jun. 09 2011, 6:58 pm

I think the recent books are very well done and are the type of thought-proking stories I love about Trek.  Did they require another universe?  No.  They required fresh individuals who still appreciate what this franchise stands for.  Just because the guiding individuals lost their way doesn't mean the product was broken beyond repair and needed replacement.  The relaunch books greatly improve upon the things I didn't like about the shows.  I don't think anyone who has kept up with them will agree a reboot was necessary, just fresh blood.


OtakuJo

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Report this Jun. 09 2011, 8:09 pm

Well while I wouldn't say one of the best by a long shot, I think Shadowplay was a good episode, and an interesting premise. Was the first thing I thought of when watching Oasis on VHS. The parallels are clear. It is interesting, though, that Oasis does take a slightly different angle -- and that these differences add I think to the perspective of Rene's character in this. The village creator in Shadowplay was not marooned; he was there by choice, and did not have the guilt of believing himself to have caused the deaths of his comerades. Also the character from Oasis had a daughter to consider, whereas in Shadowplay, he did not.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

rocketscientist

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POSTS: 10054

Report this Jun. 09 2011, 10:08 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jun. 09 2011, 6:58 pm

>

>I think the recent books are very well done and are the type of thought-proking stories I love about Trek.  Did they require another universe?  No.  They required fresh individuals who still appreciate what this franchise stands for.  Just because the guiding individuals lost their way doesn't mean the product was broken beyond repair and needed replacement.  The relaunch books greatly improve upon the things I didn't like about the shows.  I don't think anyone who has kept up with them will agree a reboot was necessary, just fresh blood.

>


I can get behind that.  That said, it certainly didn't hurt to reboot the classic original "Star Trek" characters because they're the best known.  But I agree with you, it was definitely more important to get rid of Berman and Braga, who were killing the franchise by sticking too close to the TNG formula for two subsequent series, not really understanding "Star Trek" at all, and just making very poor creative decisions wrt the franchise.  They were the wrong guys to leave in control of the franchise.  VOY, ENT, GEN, INS, and NEM are the evidence of that.


Another thing wrt reboots, they happen all the time in comics.  DC is about to reboot the entire DCU in September with 52 titles starting with issue #1 (including Action Comics and Detective Comics, the longest continually published books in history).  It looks like it is going to be as drastic as the original Crisis on Infinite Earths, with the histories and ages of many of their characters severely altered thanks to a villain mucking with the timeline.  The rumor is that Superman, for example, will no longer be married to Lois and will be younger.  Superman's origin has been revised 2 times the last 10 years.  It looks like it is going to happen again.  Also, Barbara Gordon will magically be Batgirl again, after being crippled and left in a wheelchair after the Joker shot her in Alan Moore's classic "The Killing Joke."  Needless to say, many disabled people are very upset about that development, since Barbara as Oracle has been a very strong and important character in the DCU.


Why is this being done so soon after a number of books were launched to critical acclaim and so soon after DC had already revised its universe again?  Solely to generate interest and target a slightly younger demographic who feel intimidated by the history that had already accumulated.  It's essentially the same reasons as Abrams' reboot. 


  


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

Treknoir

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POSTS: 1784

Report this Jun. 10 2011, 8:08 am

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jun. 09 2011, 4:20 pm

>

>Nowadays, the kids who see Bale's Batman as THE Batman may scoff and even hate Adam West's 1966 Batman, but in the 60's his impact was huge and helped spread the Batman name like never before.

>


Good example.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Treknoir

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POSTS: 1784

Report this Jun. 10 2011, 8:15 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jun. 09 2011, 6:58 pm

>

>I think the recent books are very well done and are the type of thought-proking stories I love about Trek.  Did they require another universe?  No.  They required fresh individuals who still appreciate what this franchise stands for.  Just because the guiding individuals lost their way doesn't mean the product was broken beyond repair and needed replacement.  The relaunch books greatly improve upon the things I didn't like about the shows.  I don't think anyone who has kept up with them will agree a reboot was necessary, just fresh blood.

>


Still working my way through my Kindle book list  and ST recommendations, but aren't most of the newer books post TOS and even TNG (25th century +)?


Personally, I would love to see a movies or series in the ST future. HOWEVER, I can fully understand why TPTB took it back to where it all began with a fresh perspective.


TNG is my favorite ST series. Picard is my favorite captain. But the reality is that TOS is the foundation of the franchise and is iconic.  


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

gman707@gmail.com

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Report this Jun. 10 2011, 8:52 am

I think rene was right. the ending to enterprise was proof that the writers were desperate for ideas (A holodeck? come on!).  given the frankly average quality of enterprise as a whole maybe it was time for a new start. the other 4 series will always be fondly remembered as an origin but for new fans and old hands alike a fresh start helps keep things fresh interesting and above all, exciting! i love to watch my trek dvds as much as the next fan but the prospect of new challenges and adventures for the franchise is even more of a thrill.


I think the problem with scofers amongst the younger generations is that some things dont age well. Batman is one exaMPLE. The 60's movie is laughable! especially the bit where you can see the guys hand shaking the rubber shark because the cammera angle is too wide. it may have spread the bat man name and popularised super hereos but it is and always was rubbish (come on just cos there was no alternative back then dosn't meen it couldn't have been done well)!  star trek has aged much better because it wasnt rubbish to begin with! Sure the effects are cheesy nowadays and it's a lot slower paced than the modern day vesrsions (enterprise aside) but the stories are stil plausable and reasonably well acted. Batman on the otherhand suffers from bad writing (or should that be holy bad bat-writing!?) and adam west overacting.


 


when you combine that with the stupid val kilmer movie and the god awfull batman and robin (Really george cloony and arnie!? how did it fail? lol) it's no wonder they are scoffed at. Heck, i am a life long batman fan (i have a massive collection of batman comics from every one from lee to moore and from leob to millar!) and I think Nolans batman is THE batman. The star trek revigorated a series that had run it's course in terms of where they could go with the established cannon. the reboot will not only bring new fans to the franchise, but will also give long time fans something new to sink our teeth into!

rocketscientist

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Report this Jun. 10 2011, 11:12 am

 


>>> I think the problem with scofers amongst the younger generations is that some things dont age well. Batman is one exaMPLE. The 60's movie is laughable! especially the bit where you can see the guys hand shaking the rubber shark because the cammera angle is too wide. it may have spread the bat man name and popularised super hereos but it is and always was rubbish (come on just cos there was no alternative back then dosn't meen it couldn't have been done well)!  star trek has aged much better because it wasnt rubbish to begin with! Sure the effects are cheesy nowadays and it's a lot slower paced than the modern day vesrsions (enterprise aside) but the stories are stil plausable and reasonably well acted. Batman on the otherhand suffers from bad writing (or should that be holy bad bat-writing!?) and adam west overacting.


 Actually, the 60s Batman show was brilliantly written.  It's intended to be campy.  Adam West, on the Batman film's extras, talks about how revolutionary and crazy the writing was.  He thought it had a lot of potential and, in actuality, it was a huge success.  Just because that version of Batman doesn't jibe anymore with the grittier takes (which I am a fan of), doesn't mean that the TV show sucked.  I love it for what it is.  That show worked on two levels.  Kids loved the superhero aspect and adults just loved the silly fun.  And, y'know, it's still looked at fondly by some of the big names in the comic industry.  Grant Morrison, who has made the current line of bat-books very popular, has expressed his fondness for the show and incorporated a bit of its lightness and humor into his scripts (the best example being a flashback story with Batman and Dick Grayson/Robin.  I just read an interview with Fabian Niceza, who currently writes the "Red Robin" book (about the third Robin, Tim Drake), where he expressed his love of the Batman TV series.  It's really fun.  I only wish they'd put the DVDs out of the original show, but, apparently, there are still legal issues keeping that from happening.


And I don't what you mean about "Star Trek" being slower-paced that the spin-offs.  I often found many TNG and VOY episodes to be really cloying and boring.  The original show, though, I'm hard pressed to think of one episode that I thought was boring.  Maybe "The Alternative Factor."  That's one of the few I don't care for (along with "The Lights of Zetar"). 


>> when you combine that with the stupid val kilmer movie and the god awfull batman and robin (Really george cloony and arnie!? how did it fail? lol) it's no wonder they are scoffed at.


Well, that's all due to Joel Schumaker trying to emulate the Batman TV show and failing miserably.  I agree with you, his two Batman movies sucked big time.  Batman and Robin was the most painful movie I've ever experienced.  Horrible!  Batman TV series, though, rocks.


>> Heck, i am a life long batman fan (i have a massive collection of batman comics from every one from lee to moore and from leob to millar!) and I think Nolans batman is THE batman.


Me too!  Have you been reading the books lately? 


>> The star trek revigorated a series that had run it's course in terms of where they could go with the established cannon. the reboot will not only bring new fans to the franchise, but will also give long time fans something new to sink our teeth into!


I agree!


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

wissa

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POSTS: 4026

Report this Jun. 10 2011, 12:39 pm

Quote: Treknoir @ Jun. 09 2011, 10:20 am

>

>http://trekmovie.com/2011/06/08/rene-auberjonois-enterprise-copied-from-star-trek-ds9-shows-need-for-star-trek-2009/

>"I was sitting with Scott Bakula at lunch about two or three days into shooting the episode. He said, “I like this script. I think this is a good one.” I said, “Yeah, we did this one in season three.” And he looked at me and said, “What?” I said, “It was the same sort of story.” That was not really a putdown, but when you’ve done that many years of writing stories, there will be recurring themes. I think that’s one of the reasons why I thought the new feature film really sort of broke the mold. It was time for new minds to come in and new conceptions to happen, and I think it’s absolutely revitalized the whole franchise. I have that sense now when I got to conventions, that even though ours is an old show that was done years ago, the new energy brought to the franchise by the last feature film has rekindled people’s passions for the whole Star Trek world."

>


 


I completely agree.  Creatively they were stuck in doing the same thing over and over again.  I'm not going to say that was anyone's fault, but just a product of it being in constant production for so long an having it's own culture.  Cultures are hard to change once they are established.  A bit of a rest and a whole new vision was what was needed.  Just as it was when TNG was created.


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