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Who was the greater hero?

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Created by: 3 of 12

3 of 12

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Report this Jun. 06 2011, 11:54 pm

Who was the greater hero between these two?
If you vote other please say who and why.

CaptainMauin

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Report this Jun. 07 2011, 6:16 am

Between those two, I would say Data.


However, I do not think that either Data or Kirk were really heroic. Sure, they both died to save others, but tha doesn't necessarily make them a hero. *shrug* Yes, they did other things, but I still don't consider them heroes.


The person/people that I thought was heroic was Kathryn Janeway (both Captain and Admiral). Captain Janeway fought for 7 years to keep her ship and crew safe in the Delta Quadrant while they tried to get home. Admiral Janeway came back through time, violating the Temporal Prime Directive (I think that's what it's called) in order to bring Voyager back sooner. She carried with her a virus that would do serious damage to the Borg, but in order to use that virus, she had to be assimilated. Following her assimilation, she died when the transwarp hub was destroyed.


Goodbye. I am gone.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Jun. 07 2011, 9:08 am

How do you have another if the question is "Which of the 2" instead of "Who in general"?


 


Anyways, if we are going with who had the more heroic sacrifice, tough call.  Kirk didn't know he was going to die, Data did.  Data gave his life for a friend, Kirk gave his for complete strangers.  So which is more heroic, dying for strangers or knowingly going on a suicide mission?


Vger23

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Report this Jun. 07 2011, 10:21 am

I don't look at it based on one action. I look at it based on "body of work." Kirk is a hero. He is an American icon and one of the most immediately identifyable hero-figures in the entire world. Data is not.


 


Answer (without any room for debate other than personal preference): Kirk

Matthias Russell

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Report this Jun. 07 2011, 11:55 am

Exactly, if you look at it over the course of careers, there is no comparrison.

tribblenator999

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Report this Jun. 07 2011, 7:18 pm

data saved the enterprise-E. Kirk saved veridian 3, enterprise-D, and Picard. winner = Kirk.

Roboto

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Report this Jun. 07 2011, 9:07 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jun. 07 2011, 9:08 am

>

>How do you have another if the question is "Which of the 2" instead of "Who in general"?

>Anyways, if we are going with who had the more heroic sacrifice, tough call.  Kirk didn't know he was going to die, Data did.  Data gave his life for a friend, Kirk gave his for complete strangers.  So which is more heroic, dying for strangers or knowingly going on a suicide mission?

>


 


Gotta go with this.


3 of 12

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Report this Jun. 07 2011, 10:43 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jun. 07 2011, 9:08 am

>

>How do you have another if the question is "Which of the 2" instead of "Who in general"?

>Anyways, if we are going with who had the more heroic sacrifice, tough call.  Kirk didn't know he was going to die, Data did.  Data gave his life for a friend, Kirk gave his for complete strangers.  So which is more heroic, dying for strangers or knowingly going on a suicide mission?

>


I have only been on these boards a short while but one thing that is for sure there is always someone going to say "other".

You bring up a good point of Kirk dying in battle and Data dying by his own hand. Both Kirk and Data had long careers in starfleet with many medals and awards for each of them. Data knew that his actions would kill him but save his friends, For me that is a true hero.

My "other" is Spock when he sacrificed his life in The Wrath of Khan.


Are you worthy of being added to the Collective's perfection?

Ezri Janeway

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 3:22 am

I dont know how to measure heroism and Im not sure it should be attempted. Usually with questions like this I ask myself what Id choose if I had a gun to my head and still I cant answer this one!


"Let me see if Ive got this straight. You're risking the ship, the crew, and the mission on the assumptions that Helkara and Leishman are engineering geniuses, Tharp is a piloting savant, our transporter chief can work miracles, and the Breen are unwilling to sacrifice themselves in a kamikaze attack?" "Yup." "Damn I LOVE this job."

Matthias Russell

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 5:46 am

Quote: 3 of 12 @ Jun. 07 2011, 10:43 pm

>

>
I have only been on these boards a short while but one thing that is for sure there is always someone going to say "other".


Haha, true.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 5:46 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>How do you have another if the question is "Which of the 2" instead of "Who in general"?

>Anyways, if we are going with who had the more heroic sacrifice, tough call.  Kirk didn't know he was going to die, Data did.  Data gave his life for a friend, Kirk gave his for complete strangers.  So which is more heroic, dying for strangers or knowingly going on a suicide mission?

>

Ha MR you have fallen for my trap.

Admit it now. Kirk's death in GEN was rubbish and unfitting dying for the unseen inhabitants of Veridian III while Data's death (albeit unecessary) was a lot better in NEM with at least people in mourning acknowledging his life (so to speak)


 


I admit NOTHING!!


3 of 12

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 7:15 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jun. 08 2011, 5:46 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

Ha MR you have fallen for my trap.

Admit it now. Kirk's death in GEN was rubbish and unfitting dying for the unseen inhabitants of Veridian III while Data's death (albeit unecessary) was a lot better in NEM with at least people in mourning acknowledging his life (so to speak)



I admit NOTHING!!




Seems that you two have argued about Kirk's death before?
I to was not happy about the way he died. But I can't see Kirk dying like Data. He was a fighter and would go down that way. The original version had Kirk being shot in the back and then dying. Now that I think about it that would have been a better death for Kirk. Kirk could not be defeated in a fair fight.


Are you worthy of being added to the Collective's perfection?

Vger23

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 7:34 am

Again, you have people who are "specialized" fans (ie: LOVE TNG or LOVE DATA) who can't think objectively and are just automatically going to answer that Data is the better hero. That makes no sense whatsoever.


1. Data has no emotions and is programmed to preserve human life. He's PROGRAMMED to make the proper moral / ethical choice. Heroism is something beyond programming.


2. When Data WAS given emotion, he cowered under a console while his best friend was kidnapped.


3. I disagree entirely with those who say "it's more heroic to sacrifice yourself for your friends like Data did." First of all, being a greater hero is about what you've done over the course of your life, not just how you died. Second...if "how they died" is really all that mattered to you, Kirk left a virtual paradise and immortality behind to save an entire civilization of people he didn't know at the urgings of a man he didn't know. He could have returned to his life (remember, Guinan says you can leave the Nexus and go anytime, anywhere) and lived however he wanted to...but he chose instead to sacrifice himself for those he didn't know. What is more selfless and heroic than that??


Again, I stand by my original statement...


 


Kirk is a world-wide iconic hero figure. The character is part of our collective consciousness (or perhaps SUBconsciousness) as a culture. He is one of the "molds" of the classic hero. There's no comparing him to any other characters in the franchise, with the exception of perhaps Spock who shares that iconic status. No matter what way you lean, no matter how obsessed with a character or a particular element of the Star Trek franchise you may be...I can't understand how anyone can even argue the point.


If the question was simply "who is your favorite character," that's different and completely understandable. But in this case, I don't see how anyone claiming to be anything even approaching objective can argue for anything other than Kirk.


 


end rant


 

rocketscientist

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 8:02 am

Quote: Vger23 @ Jun. 08 2011, 7:34 am

>

>Again, you have people who are "specialized" fans (ie: LOVE TNG or LOVE DATA) who can't think objectively and are just automatically going to answer that Data is the better hero. That makes no sense whatsoever.

>1. Data has no emotions and is programmed to preserve human life. He's PROGRAMMED to make the proper moral / ethical choice. Heroism is something beyond programming.

>2. When Data WAS given emotion, he cowered under a console while his best friend was kidnapped.

>3. I disagree entirely with those who say "it's more heroic to sacrifice yourself for your friends like Data did." First of all, being a greater hero is about what you've done over the course of your life, not just how you died. Second...if "how they died" is really all that mattered to you, Kirk left a virtual paradise and immortality behind to save an entire civilization of people he didn't know at the urgings of a man he didn't know. He could have returned to his life (remember, Guinan says you can leave the Nexus and go anytime, anywhere) and lived however he wanted to...but he chose instead to sacrifice himself for those he didn't know. What is more selfless and heroic than that??

>Again, I stand by my original statement...

>Kirk is a world-wide iconic hero figure. The character is part of our collective consciousness (or perhaps SUBconsciousness) as a culture. He is one of the "molds" of the classic hero. There's no comparing him to any other characters in the franchise, with the exception of perhaps Spock who shares that iconic status. No matter what way you lean, no matter how obsessed with a character or a particular element of the Star Trek franchise you may be...I can't understand how anyone can even argue the point.

>If the question was simply "who is your favorite character," that's different and completely understandable. But in this case, I don't see how anyone claiming to be anything even approaching objective can argue for anything other than Kirk.

>end rant

>


Standing ovation to V'Ger!


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

Ghostmojo

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 1:27 pm

Data isn't a hero - he's a machine. He's a very interesting machine of course - amusing, confounding, inspiring etc. - but still a machine.


To be heroic you have to be aware of what you will lose if you fail ...

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