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Which is the better Captain: Kirk or Picard?

Ghostmojo

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Report this Jun. 03 2011, 4:10 am

Quote: Jim Kirk @ Jun. 01 2011, 6:49 pm

>

>kirk is the far better captain (IMHO).  He saved the planet several times and always got the women.  I like Picard but I have always had a special admiration for Kirk and you cant replace childhood heros easily. 

>


I agree. Kirk is the perfect hero-leader. Horatio Hornblower in space!


I often wondered if Picard's interest in historic naval stuff was a sideways reference from Roddenberry about his initial inspiration for a Star Trek captain. His basic premise for Trek seemed to be a fusion of the wagon train to the stars (recognising the popularity [even if it was by then in decline] of the western) with C.S. Foresters epic adventures of the Napoleonic Wars. It was an unusual mix - but it worked!


By the time of Picard the only way to do the captain bit was the antithesis of Kirk. The latter the womaniser, intrepid, hot-headed adventurer - the former the reasoned, stand-offish, bookish, and much older loner.


With Kirk and Picard you had it covered. They are archetypes. That is why none of the other three were any good - it had all been said and done before.


to boldy go where no man has gone before

the bungalo bill

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Report this Jun. 03 2011, 10:43 am

Picard because Kirk's landing party was mostly just four characters: Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Checkov. Picard's have more variety.


Ghostmojo

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Report this Jun. 03 2011, 11:02 am

Picard was a great captain but not such a great leader. He was more of a diplomat - oft inclined to seek agreement and support from his coterie. Kirk would just follow his instincts and hunches - he was classic leadership material.


I really liked Picard but would place him slightly behind Kirk in the ratings.

lizzyp2011

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Report this Jun. 03 2011, 11:22 am

I think that Kirk was the better Captain, in my opinion, however Picard is very good at delegation, unfortunately I just cannot stand Janeway, she is so false again in my opinion. I have grown up with James T Kirk so he wins hands down for me.

Trajan

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 12:52 am

Quote: Ghostmojo @ Jun. 03 2011, 4:10 am

>

>By the time of Picard the only way to do the captain bit was the antithesis of Kirk. The latter the womaniser, intrepid, hot-headed adventurer - the former the reasoned, stand-offish, bookish, and much older loner.

>


Actually, Gene never had any concrete character ideas when he conceived of the new captain for the Enterprise, other than his traditional image of the womanizing, swash-buckling captain we already saw in Kirk.


The character of Picard was built around Patrick Stewart, not vice-versa.


The casting director for TNG loved Stewart's audition, but Roddenberry originally objected to hiring Stewart, because he couldn't conceive of an "old, bald frenchman" as the captain of the Enterprise.


It was only after extensive persuasion that Roddenberry got on-board with Stewart.  But even then, we had Riker taking most of the spotlight in season 1, Riker who mas so very Kirk-like early on.


Getting back to my original point, Picard was never intended to be the antithesis to Kirk.  Gene was desperately searching for an actor who could measure up to Kirk in every way.


And he found it.  But it in a very different way than he had planned. 

OtakuJo

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 12:55 am

I love that Picard is a very different character to Kirk. It stopped TNG from becoming a 24th century clone of TOS.


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vulcan7

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 3:06 am

Think they are both good captains,they were regarded highly for what they did,1 thing we need to know is you cant really say who is better beacuse one was commanding a starship in a earlier time and the other a 100 years later.

Ghostmojo

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 4:09 am

Quote: Trajan @ Jun. 04 2011, 12:52 am

Quote: Ghostmojo @ Jun. 03 2011, 4:10 am

>

>

>By the time of Picard the only way to do the captain bit was the antithesis of Kirk. The latter the womaniser, intrepid, hot-headed adventurer - the former the reasoned, stand-offish, bookish, and much older loner.

>

Actually, Gene never had any concrete character ideas when he conceived of the new captain for the Enterprise, other than his traditional image of the womanizing, swash-buckling captain we already saw in Kirk.

The character of Picard was built around Patrick Stewart, not vice-versa.

The casting director for TNG loved Stewart's audition, but Roddenberry originally objected to hiring Stewart, because he couldn't conceive of an "old, bald frenchman" as the captain of the Enterprise.

It was only after extensive persuasion that Roddenberry got on-board with Stewart.  But even then, we had Riker taking most of the spotlight in season 1, Riker who mas so very Kirk-like early on.

Getting back to my original point, Picard was never intended to be the antithesis to Kirk.  Gene was desperately searching for an actor who could measure up to Kirk in every way.

And he found it.  But it in a very different way than he had planned. 


Yes but it amounts to the same thing. There was no way he was going to do a new show with the same kind of captain. Nobody would have bought into that. It was obvious a contrast was needed. One was extrovert - the other shy; one was young - the other old; one was clearly very virile - the other reserved; and so on. I agree absolutely that Riker had the Alpha male stuff that Picard lacked - which Kirk had in abundance.


This very same discussion has taken place somewhere else:


http://www.startrek.com/boards-topic/33347695/best-star-trek-captain?page=3#last_post


to boldy go where no man has gone before

Ghostmojo

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 4:16 am

Quote: Trajan @ Jun. 03 2011, 12:01 am

>

>You should be executed for that statement.  Burned at the stake.  Janeway over Picard?  Never.  Ludicrousness right there.

>


I wouldn't be so cruel in my punishment! A bit OTT that one ...


But you are right. Janeway was probably the most excrutiatingly boring sci-fi character ever dreamt up. A woman captain needs to be something really special and has to appeal to an often largely male audience in a big way - and I don't just mean in the obvious manner.


Janeway was dull with a capital D and irritating with a capital I ...


to boldy go where no man has gone before

3 of 12

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 6:56 am

Kirk. He was a good diplomat. It was just someone had to get a punch to the jaw during the negotiations.


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coastcityo

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 7:12 am

Sisko tops them both. He was diplomatic if needed, but kicked butt when he had too.

commander_phoenix202

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 9:41 am

They were both great captains, but i'd have to say Picard. Kirk fought too much and made out with way too many women. Picard had class. He could play a darned flute and quote Shakespear right from the top of his head! And he used reasoning before using his fist.


Now thats my kind of man.


 


Tilek svi'khaf-spol t'vathu - tilek svi'sha'veh. (The spear in the other's heart is the spear in your own)

Ziriath

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 12:28 pm

Kirk in TOS nor his crew doesn't wear ridiculous sleeping suits, civilian clothes of 24th century (the same ridiculous) nor 'The Risa outfit', which is the highest level of ridiculousness. That's one of the reasons, why is he better.


THE WOMEN!!!

Captain. James Bolas

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 1:33 pm

Definetly Kirk but my favourite Captain out of all is Archer so on the rate of Picard, Kirk and Archer I would say Archer is the best Kirk 2nd best and Picard 3rd best...



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EM2

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 8:32 pm

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