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Borg Cube vs Death Star

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Jun. 05 2011, 1:06 pm

This seems... awfully familiar. Are these Death Star vs Borg Cube threads a yearly ritual now?


 


As before, I would argue that the Death Star would win:


- The Borg would not be able to beam aboard the Death Star; it has extremely strong energy shields and subspace jamming, both of which inhibt transporters (the latter also inhibitting Borg neural connections).


Camorite suggested that the Empire wouldn't know of the Borg's ability to transport and so wouldn't know to use jamming, but in actual fact subspace jamming is used in combat as a matter of course to stop long-range communications - the Empire would see an unknown hostile capital ship and go into their normal order of battle, which by a quirk of fate would happen to disrupt Borg transport and neural connections.


- The Superlaser is able to destroy the Cube in a single shot; the weapon is capable of targeting capital ships much smaller than the Cube.


Camorite suggested that if the Borg are able to assimilate Imperial personnel from nearby craft they would be aware of the Superlaser's planet destroying capabilities and take evasive action, but this would be contradictory to how we see them behave on screen against similar threats - aside from the fact that in every battle we see them in they never attempt to take evasive action, against Species 8472 the Borg were well aware of their planet destroying weaponry, and yet still flew in a straight line towards them broadcasting the "Resistance is Futile" message; there's no reason to think they won't behave similarly.


- Even without the Superlaser, the station is studded with over 10,000 weapon systems; even bringing to bear a small fraction of these would be sufficient to destroy the Cube in a single salvo, giving them no chance to adapt.

FltAdmlHyperViper

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Report this Jun. 05 2011, 4:14 pm

Quote: 3 of 12 @ May. 30 2011, 10:08 pm

>I believe too that the Borg would win in that contest but both the Borg and the Death Star would be no match against Starfleet the Federation if we sent every Starship and our alleys came in to help proving that the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few or the one. What I mean by that is simply this, the needs of one Empire or the Borg wouldn't stand a chance against  many of the Starships, their crews and our allies that would get involved in defending the Federation and the United Federation of Planets.

>Let's say that a Borg Cube was able to use their temporal warp technology and travel to a galaxy long ago and far far away. They encounter a fully manned and operational Death Star. Just for the hell of it Vader and the Emperor are both on board. Who wins? My money is on the Borg.

Death Star

Diameter - 160 kilometers
Crew - 265,675 plus 52,276 gunners, 607,360 troops, 25,984 stormtroopers, 42,782 ship support staff, and 167,216 pilots and support crew.
Weapons - 10,000 turbolaser batteries, 2,500 laser cannons, 2,500 ion cannons and 768 tractor beam projectors. 7,200 tie fighters, four strike cruisers, 3,600 assault shuttles, 1,400 AT-ATs, 1,400 AT-STs, 1,860 drop ships and one super laser.
Speed systems - Hyper Drive and Ion Engines.

Borg Cube

Size - 28 cubic kilometers in volume, with each side measuring more than three kilometers.
Crew - 130,000 Drones.
Weapons - Beam and projectile weaponry, cutting beams, magnetometric guided charges, shield neutralizers, tractor beams, deflector shields, subspace field, electromagnetic field, regeneration, force fields for both drones and ship. Support vehicle (Borg Sphere). Transporters.
Speed systems - Warp and Transwarp capable. Impulse Engines.

The way I think it would go...
The Borg scan the death star. Both Vader and the Emperor are alerted of danger by the force. Message sent by the Borg "We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile." Vader orders battle stations and launching of tie fighters. The gun crews wait for enemy fighters that never come.

The tie fighters are being shot down in droves. Some do get through and score some minor hits but are shocked when they see the damaged areas are quickly repaired by the Borg regeneration system. Reports now are coming in to Vader that strange beings are materializing out of thin air!

The Emporer orders the big laser into action. The big laser works well on planets.The Borg ship is more mobile than the death star. Just can't get the Borg ship in it's sights. Vader orders all tractor beams to lock on to the Borg ship.

But by now most are out of commission from Borg teleporting to these areas and pinpoint fire from their ship. Reports now are saying that Borg are "infecting" crew members. They in turn are attacking their shipmates. Vader orders all personnel to repel boarders and take back vital areas. At first this seems to be working. But soon the blasters are not killing the Borg. Now it's hand to hand. More and more of the crew are infected and turning on their friends. No matter what Vader and the Emperor do, the Borg quickly adapt and seize more of the Death Star.

In desperation Vader and the Emperor try using the force for mind control of the Borg. This works on individuals and small groups but the Borg are a collective. The fighting has gone on for hours but the Borg keep pressing on. All to soon the fight is at their doorstep. Vader and the Emperor fight like trapped rats. Vader cutting down drones like corn with his light saber and the Emperor cussing and killing Borg with his pattened lightning bolts shooting out from his fingers! It's the Emperor that falls first from sheer exhaustion. Vader keeps on fighting but soon his saber stops working on the Borg. Now armed only with fists and the force he continues on. Flinging drones through the air with the force and choking some with his hands. But even this mighty warrior falls under the waves of Borg.

THE END.

>


Fleet Admiral Hyper Viper

lnagr1

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Report this Jun. 06 2011, 2:51 am

I think thats an unfair comparison, A Death star is WAY bigger, and sadly, probably more powerful, how could you possibly fairly compare the two? Even if the death star had weaker weapons the Borg would only have a small chance of success.


chr33355

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Report this Jun. 06 2011, 9:50 am

Quote: Camorite @ Jun. 05 2011, 12:35 pm

Quote: 3 of 12 @ Jun. 04 2011, 11:19 pm

Quote: Camorite @ May. 31 2011, 11:48 am

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>welcome to the boards 3 of 12. this subject was just recently done, and in the end neither the trekies or the warsies could convince the other that they were wrong in their beliefs. Here are some of the biggest claims that the warrsies made to try and make thier point. (I will try to make a counter arguement for each one)

>1: The Borg cannot beam onto the Death Star because of its ability to Jam radio frequencies.
Counter: if the empire does not know about the transporter capabilities how can they know how to jam them, before it is too late

>2: The Borg will be unable to adapt to blasters as they use a totally different kind of energy then weapons like phasers do.
Counter: Energy based weapons are still energy based weapons. Beef comes from a bull just as it comes from a cow, and a blast of energy is still being shot out of a emitter whether it is on a blaster or a phaser.

>3: The Borg won't be able to assimilate Imperial Tech.
Counter: This is totally wrong. Asside from some obvious differences (IE, size of ships, weapon power, droids, ect), there is not much difference between the Tech in Trek and Wars. faster then light travel is still faster then light travel, whether it is by means of hyperdrive or warp drive.

>4: The Borg would be incinerated by the Super Laser.
Counter: Yeah, IF THEY STOOD COMPLEATLY STILL. I will admit that in the past we have seen the borg impliment the strategy of barreling right through to their target, but assuming that they are able to assimilate either tie pilots or a shuttle crew before they attack the DS then they would have all the knowledge that they needed to mount a propper defense against the super laser. Now some would argue that would not be the case as none off them would know the true power of the SL, but they would know the defenses of the DS, and they would know that the SL was more for destroying larger targets, like planets and moons, then for destroying smaller fast moving targets, like a Cube ship, however for those people i will remind them that the Borg was able to mount an effeective defense agianst the Enterprise when they tried to use the deflector dish weapon in BOBW by simply assimilateing Picard, who would not have known all of the technical stuff (IE, frequency, power output, ect.), short of how the weapon worked.

>there are others of course, but these are the main ones that i can remember. so all i will say in closeing is, here we go agian.

>


Had this debate on another site (star wars). Your right about star wars fans will find or make up something on how their side is going to win. I guess that some star trek fans are the same. Myself I like both franchises. So I try to look at all the factors from both to see how this battle would play out.

yeah, they will bring in some BS power calculation that has no basis in actual canon, and try to use it to justify how overpowered their precious SW weapons are. but what they can't seem to understand is that it don't matter how much power a weapon has, if they can't hit the target it is useless.

  Except the calculations do have a basis in canon you just ignore it beccause you have no way to prove the calculations wrong.  And seeing as we have never seen the Borg do any sort of evasive manuvers even when they know an enemies weapons can kill them.


Camorite

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Report this Jun. 06 2011, 3:32 pm

hello vorta its been a while. ready to rumble again.


Camorite suggested that the Empire wouldn't know of the Borg's ability to transport and so wouldn't know to use jamming, but in actual fact subspace jamming is used in combat as a matter of course to stop long-range communications - the Empire would see an unknown hostile capital ship and go into their normal order of battle, which by a quirk of fate would happen to disrupt Borg transport and neural connections


and you are still forgetting the simple fact that any fighter or patrol ship the the cube finds and assimilates will have the means to break through such jamming should hte need arrise. as for the neural connection thing, it would not be dissrupted to the point where the borg would be unable to do their duety. We saw this in First Contact, Regeneration, and Survival Instinct.


Camorite suggested that if the Borg are able to assimilate Imperial personnel from nearby craft they would be aware of the Superlaser's planet destroying capabilities and take evasive action, but this would be contradictory to how we see them behave on screen against similar threats - aside from the fact that in every battle we see them in they never attempt to take evasive action, against Species 8472 the Borg were well aware of their planet destroying weaponry, and yet still flew in a straight line towards them broadcasting the "Resistance is Futile" message; there's no reason to think they won't behave similarly


unless the queen was with them, as a more individual type leader of the borg, then say Locutus, she can easily change their stategies. we saw this in First Contact when they launched the sphear ship just before the cube was destroyed.


 Even without the Superlaser, the station is studded with over 10,000 weapon systems; even bringing to bear a small fraction of these would be sufficient to destroy the Cube in a single salvo, giving them no chance to adapt


and as i pointed out already the same thing was thought when they tried to use the deflector weapon in BOBW, and look as how well that turned out for them. and that defense was the result of assimilating just one man with a basic understanding of how the weapon was to work.

Camorite

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Report this Jun. 06 2011, 3:35 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

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  Except the calculations do have a basis in canon you just ignore it beccause you have no way to prove the calculations wrong.  And seeing as we have never seen the Borg do any sort of evasive manuvers even when they know an enemies weapons can kill them.

 

Old arguments

 

They're probably choosing to ignore the expanded universe when they say actual canon.  Star wars fanatics tend to cherry pick the works of various authors to exaggerate their strengths.  As an example, let's say we see a wookie throw someone a half a mile in a comic book.  Does that mean that we should now assume that's how a wookie would behave even though we never seen a wookie do it anywhere else?  Even if the answer is "yes" to certain people, a comic book would not be the deciding factor to someone looking for the type of realism we see in higher levels of canon.

 


exactly marshal, just becuase one author says it is so, does not mean that it is so. especially with a part of the saga that is considered second rate canon in the first place.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Camorite

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Report this Jun. 06 2011, 3:37 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

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>- The Superlaser is able to destroy the Cube in a single shot; the weapon is capable of targeting capital ships much smaller than the Cube.

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I see the death star firing into a group of ships and just hitting one of them.  How do you know, hitting it means it was targetting it?

 

Plus this assumes that we're talking about the Death Star II vs a borg cube.  The original Death Star required a 24 hour recharge after firing and could only fire straight.


maybe he is talking about the death star frame from the Jedi Acadomy Trillogy marshal, that one did fire a beam that turned in mid fire. too bad that they were in the middle of a black hole cluster, and the frame was caught in the gravity well of one at the time. but that is a mear technicality.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Jun. 06 2011, 4:16 pm

Marshall8472:


The first Death Star could destroy capital ships as well, and explicitly targeted them; it did so at the Battle of Despayre. The 24 hour recharge period is only for a maximum power blast (the smaller ones necessary to destroy capital ships have correspondingly quicker recharge times) and I don't believe it has ever been stated that the superlaser can only fire in a straight line; the above battle would seem to disprove this.


 


Camorite:


and you are still forgetting the simple fact that any fighter or patrol ship the the cube finds and assimilates will have the means to break through such jamming should hte need arrise.


Imperial ships don't have the capability to cut through their own jamming, short of switching it off.


as for the neural connection thing, it would not be dissrupted to the point where the borg would be unable to do their duety. We saw this in First Contact, Regeneration, and Survival Instinct.


Those were situations where there were still multiple drones in neural contact with each other; even then, their personalities began to emerge and lifelong drones like Seven were seen to have extreme problems adapting to individuality. At the very least, their efficiency will be reduced significantly.


When we've seen Borg connections to any sort of Collective completely severed (such as the destruction of the Queen in First Contact and when the neurolytic pathogen was given to them in Endgame) their technology actually began self-destructing.


unless the queen was with them, as a more individual type leader of the borg, then say Locutus, she can easily change their stategies. we saw this in First Contact when they launched the sphear ship just before the cube was destroyed.


The Queen is the persona of the Collective opposed to an actual individual, and as such she's always 'guiding' them, whether a Queen body is physically present or not. Despite this, the Collective have never used any evasive manoeuvres, even against known planet destroyers and weapons they have no defense against.


and as i pointed out already the same thing was thought when they tried to use the deflector weapon in BOBW, and look as how well that turned out for them. and that defense was the result of assimilating just one man with a basic understanding of how the weapon was to work.


Picard had been briefed on the plan and possessed the vital piece of knowledge necessary to render the weapon useless - they were going to focus it's power entirely along the frequencies they had previously been able to damage the Borg with.


The Borg already knew what those frequencies were (after all, they'd just been damaged with them), and thus they didn't need to know any other details of how the weapon worked to counter it - all they had to do was divert all of their power to shielding those frequencies, which they did.


This scenario is not applicable to any of the weapons on the Death Star, however.

Camorite

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Report this Jun. 07 2011, 4:16 pm

Imperial ships don't have the capability to cut through their own jamming, short of switching it off.


and where is this ever stated, movies only as they are much easier to check, and novels are not always in sinc with each other.


Those were situations where there were still multiple drones in neural contact with each other; even then, their personalities began to emerge and lifelong drones like Seven were seen to have extreme problems adapting to individuality. At the very least, their efficiency will be reduced significantly


that was one case in many, yet in both First Contact and Regeneration we saw the exact opposite happen.


When we've seen Borg connections to any sort of Collective completely severed (such as the destruction of the Queen in First Contact and when the neurolytic pathogen was given to them in Endgame) their technology actually began self-destructing.


no, not all of the tech did so. the uniples did only becuase it was the sorce of the pathogen, and was unable to compensate as ship that were further away, such as the sphear ship that chased Voyager, were able to.



The Queen is the persona of the Collective opposed to an actual individual, and as such she's always 'guiding' them, whether a Queen body is physically present or not. Despite this, the Collective have never used any evasive manoeuvres, even against known planet destroyers and weapons they have no defense against


again, as i have pointed out many times, just becuase they don't display this perticular ability does not mean that they do not utilize it. remembere that the borg usually do not go up agianst races that have firepower on the level of that that is seen in Star Wars, so you cannot say for wure how they would react in battle with them.


Picard had been briefed on the plan and possessed the vital piece of knowledge necessary to render the weapon useless - they were going to focus it's power entirely along the frequencies they had previously been able to damage the Borg with


WHEN, when did this happen in BOBW? yes he was breifed by both Riker and Shelby on the plan, but it is a far cry from being breifed on a plan and actually knowing the finer working of how something that has NEVER BEEN TRIED before will work.


The Borg already knew what those frequencies were (after all, they'd just been damaged with them), and thus they didn't need to know any other details of how the weapon worked to counter it - all they had to do was divert all of their power to shielding those frequencies, which they did.


and how could they have done that, as Data was fluctuating the frequencies at a random order? yes the frequency was in the upper em band, but that still leaves a lot of frequencies that it could have been.


This scenario is not applicable to any of the weapons on the Death Star, however.


only for someone that, i am sorry to say, cannot, or will not, see the connection between the two situations.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

3 of 12

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 12:10 am

How would they stop the Borg from teleporting with no pryor knowledge of this technology? Hell even starfleet had a very hard time trying to stop them from boarding their ships! The death star has to be in front of it's target to hit it with the super laser from it's concave design. It took them forever to get in to position to destroy the moon of Endor. We all know how well that turned out.


Are you worthy of being added to the Collective's perfection?

3 of 12

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 9:44 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

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>How would they stop the Borg from teleporting with no pryor knowledge of this technology? Hell even starfleet had a very hard time trying to stop them from boarding their ships! The death star has to be in front of it's target to hit it with the super laser from it's concave design. It took them forever to get in to position to destroy the moon of Endor. We all know how well that turned out.

>

 

They were using Endor's moon to generate a shield around the Death Star until it was completed.   I don't think they had plans to destroy Endor's moon    Unless you meant to say the rebel base at Yavin 4.




I stand corrected. Still didn't turn out well for them!


Are you worthy of being added to the Collective's perfection?

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 11:08 am

Marshall:


I saw no mention of the original Death Star being able to shoot anywhere but straight.


We only see it fire once; it is never stated anywhere that it is limited to firing straight. When we do see a superlaser firing multiple times at a variety of targets, it is able to fire off-axis, and there it has never been stated that this was a new function that its predecessor could not do.


In that battle, the Death Star did destroy a ship that was about 2000km away and over 3km in length (longer than a borg cube's length).  2000km is relativly close by space standards.


The vessel was longer than the Borg Cube, but the Borg Cube is wider and has the largest possible targeting profile a vessel can have.


The ship could have been directly in the path of the super laser when giving the order to fire... 


The probability of the vessel just happening to be precisely in alignment with the superlaser is extremely low. When Tarkin decides to use the superlaser on it, no mention of what would have been an astonishingly improbable piece of luck is made as the decision is taken.


...or the Death Star could have rotated itself slightly to target that way.


That would mean that in order to target the vessel, the Death Star's pilots would actually have to be doing the targeting, moving the station into the correct alignment. This isn't the case however; as you mention below, the gunnery crew are responsible for the targeting.


The gunner said it was "not an easy target".  That's not the words I'd expect to hear from shooting something so large and so close.


The weapon is designed to shoot at planets; it was never intended to be used in ship to ship combat. The fact it actually could at all displays a targeting system far more powerful than was actually needed.


The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia said this about the second Death Star's superlaser: "even more powerful than its predecessor's and so accurate that it could be trained on capital ships.".  This implies that original was not as accurate to do so.


We know from the above battle however that its predecessor was still able to target large capital ships; the second's was simply more accurate and could do so with greater precision.


The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology said: "imperial technicians added other modifications to the second Death Star, including advanced targeting systems".


It doesn't state however that the ability to fire off-axis is a new modification; the ability or not of its predecessor or not is never explicitly mentioned anywhere, and its actions in the Battle of Despayre strongly suggest that it can. Firing off-axis is a function of superlaser energy focusing hardware, not targeting system software.


We can see in the movie that before destroying Alderaan the Death Star continued to rotate until Alderaan was in the center of vision which would support the idea that it could only fire straight.


There wasn't any reason for the superlaser to not be pointing directly towards the planet; they weren't in any particular hurry, and there wasn't any advantage in making a trickier off-axis shot.
 

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 1:23 pm

Camorite:

and where is this ever stated, movies only as they are much easier to check, and novels are not always in sinc with each other.

It's referenced in the first paragraph of this article, with sources given at the end. I'm not going to artificially restrict the canon to the movies.

that was one case in many, yet in both First Contact and Regeneration we saw the exact opposite happen.


Two cases - Seven has severe problems adjusting to being cut-off from the Collective when she is rescued by Voyager. Additionally, First Contact is an entirely different situation; there is a whole Sphere-full of drones still in contact with each other and whose connection to the Collective mindset is reinforced by the presence of the Queen - it should also be noted that when that connection is severed as the Queen dies, the drones shut down.


If anything, Regeneration is the one case in many; perhaps this had something to do with the fact that these were drones from the First Contact incident?


no, not all of the tech did so. the uniples did only becuase it was the sorce of the pathogen, and was unable to compensate as ship that were further away, such as the sphear ship that chased Voyager, were able to.

What are "uniples"? The Borg Queen's jubblies?

I was more under the impression that the infection spread outwards, and the infection hadn't reached that Sphere yet (it was elsewhere in the transwarp network rather than the uni-complex).

again, as i have pointed out many times, just becuase they don't display this perticular ability does not mean that they do not utilize it. remembere that the borg usually do not go up agianst races that have firepower on the level of that that is seen in Star Wars, so you cannot say for wure how they would react in battle with them.

Actually, we have seen them go up against a planet destroying weapon, that of Species 8472; they still did exactly the same and zoomed towards it in a straight line broadcasting the "Resistance is Futile" speech despite knowing its capabilities, the same way they do everytime we've seen them. There is nothing to suggest that they will behave any differently.

WHEN, when did this happen in BOBW? yes he was breifed by both Riker and Shelby on the plan, but it is a far cry from being breifed on a plan and actually knowing the finer working of how something that has NEVER BEEN TRIED before will work.

You've answered the question yourself - when he was briefed by both Riker and Shelby on the plan. He need know nothing more than was explained to the audience when Shelby explained the plan again briefly to the others - all that is needed for the Borg to counter their weapon is the fact that it will be focused on the frequencies that damaged the Borg, the knowledge of which the Borg already possess.


and how could they have done that, as Data was fluctuating the frequencies at a random order? yes the frequency was in the upper em band, but that still leaves a lot of frequencies that it could have been.

Because they were the ones being damaged by them - and whenever the Borg are attacked by frequency-based weapons, they analyse and match those frequencies.

only for someone that, i am sorry to say, cannot, or will not, see the connection between the two situations.

There isn't a connection - in one situation the Borg have already been attacked by the weapons and thus know the frequencies which damage them, with Picard giving them the knowledge that it is those frequencies that the new deflector weapon will use; in the other situation, the Borg don't know what frequencies the weapons will use and the assimilated crew won't either.

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 1:32 pm

3of12:


How would they stop the Borg from teleporting with no pryor knowledge of this technology? Hell even starfleet had a very hard time trying to stop them from boarding their ships!


Because when confronted with an unknown hostile capital ship, standard practice is to switch military jamming on. Since jamming blocks long-range communications over broad frequencies and those communications use sub-space as their medium, they will - admitted inadvertantly - also inhibit transporters.


The Death Star also possesses standard energy shields, magnetic shields and neutronium-laced armour, all things that will inhibit transporters regardless of whether the Imperials are aware of this fact or not; additionally, transporters have been known to be inhibited near to large power sources, and the Death Star's colossal hypermatter reactor certainly qualifies as this.


The death star has to be in front of it's target to hit it with the super laser from it's concave design. It took them forever to get in to position to destroy the moon of Endor. We all know how well that turned out.


That was because they had to circumnavigate an entire gas giant to get to their target; even then, they were seconds away from destroying it. This problem is not applicable against the Cube.

Camorite

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 3:22 pm

It's referenced in the first paragraph of this article, with sources given at the end. I'm not going to artificially restrict the canon to the movies


well that is just too bad vorta, as, since we only really see the death star in action in the movies, novels just don't count here. compain and wine about it all you want, but it is the truth.


Two cases - Seven has severe problems adjusting to being cut-off from the Collective when she is rescued by Voyager. Additionally, First Contact is an entirely different situation; there is a whole Sphere-full of drones still in contact with each other and whose connection to the Collective mindset is reinforced by the presence of the Queen - it should also be noted that when that connection is severed as the Queen dies, the drones shut down.


ok, i will give you that, but answer this, where was the queen in Regeneration? the answer is of course, apros, 60,000 light years away in the Delta Quadrant, and those drone were able to cause just as much damage without her being linked up with them.


 I was more under the impression that the infection spread outwards, and the infection hadn't reached that Sphere yet (it was elsewhere in the transwarp network rather than the uni-complex).


here is the way that i understand borg systems when it comes to viruses. a virus, for instance the one that Hugh set loose on his cube, takes out a Cube/Sphear and some program instantly disconects them from the main collective in order to stop the spread of the virus (Decent, Collective, Unity, BOBW, and Infinate Regress to name a few). the same has to be true for information comeing into such ships should, albiet unlikely, someone get a virus directly into the uniplex, like what happened in Endgame.


Actually, we have seen them go up against a planet destroying weapon, that of Species 8472; they still did exactly the same and zoomed towards it in a straight line broadcasting the "Resistance is Futile" speech despite knowing its capabilities, the same way they do everytime we've seen them. There is nothing to suggest that they will behave any differently.

8472's weapon was nothing like the Death Star. for one they needed to combine the power of several ships together in order to pull off such a feet. second we have seen similare techniques being used by races in the alpha quadrant (when Enterprise used its phasers to drill holes deep into a planet in Inheritance for one, and the Doomsday weapons for two). so don't go saying that 8472 had a monopoly on this kind of tech, which clearly they DID NOT.


You've answered the question yourself - when he was briefed by both Riker and Shelby on the plan. He need know nothing more than was explained to the audience when Shelby explained the plan again briefly to the others - all that is needed for the Borg to counter their weapon is the fact that it will be focused on the frequencies that damaged the Borg, the knowledge of which the Borg already possess.


ok then that said why couldn't they assimilate a pilot or corvette crewman that is freinds with someone (perhaps a family member or a lover) that has the same information Picard had about the super laser.


Because they were the ones being damaged by them - and whenever the Borg are attacked by frequency-based weapons, they analyse and match those frequencies


exaclty, and all the super laser is is a turbo laser on steroids.


There isn't a connection - in one situation the Borg have already been attacked by the weapons and thus know the frequencies which damage them, with Picard giving them the knowledge that it is those frequencies that the new deflector weapon will use; in the other situation, the Borg don't know what frequencies the weapons will use and the assimilated crew won't either.


unless they assimilate someone that has a basic knowledge of how the weapons on the DS work, which is not really all that hard to find.


come on vorta you need to do better then that.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

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