ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Jadzia or Ezri?

Report this
Created by: the bungalo bill

Mantaray

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2793

Report this Jul. 22 2011, 9:56 am

Quote: Dendodge @ Jul. 22 2011, 8:49 am

>

>That episode showed how three-dimensional Dax could be, but they never really played into it.  Apart from the odd scene with Sisko, and the stuff with Klingons, 

>Ezri, on the other hand, had her whole inner struggle thing.  She was confused because she was trying to assert herself against 300 years of other people's memories.  And that - in my opinion - made her more interesting than Jadzia ever was.

>And she was cute.

>


Ezri was cute, but unnecessary.  I think she potentially could have been interesting character if flushed out over time, but she was so rushed and forced that I found her more annoying than credible.  


I eagerly awaited Season 7 wanting to continue the great storyline and high drama from season 6, but I felt like the show detoured and meandered while trying to justify the unnecessary Ezri on the viewer.   Again, I think the concept of Ezri was interesting, but it was a horrible and rare mistake on the series to bring her in the last season.  


I think by saying that "Dax's former lives didn't do anything to Jadzia's character", leads me to believe that you missed a lot and didn't really understand the nuances of her character.


 


 

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Jul. 22 2011, 6:44 pm

Quote: RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Jul. 22 2011, 8:24 am

>

>Hey OtakuJo you probably don't remember me but hello all the same.  I think you are correct that De Boer is the better actress, however De Boer was not the better Dax.  I think Farrell really liked the character, and I don't think she would have chose to leave like she did had she had her way.  I didn't mind the way her character changed because it reminded me of real life.  Sure DS9 had 7 seasons but I don't think that means that 7 years only passed, we don't know what the time table actually was.  I mean I seriously doubt the Dominion War only lasted 3 months, or that Dukat's time on DS9 when he and The Dominion took it over was only 2 days.  People change over time...thus is life.

>In the end I just genuine Farrel was more real then De Boer and it showed in the character.

>


Course I remember you. Hi and welcome back.


It's your opinion re: Jadzia and I respect that. However, I did not find the same. It is true that characters change. (They generally did imply that one season = one year in-universe, or approximately, on several occasions.) However the kind of ad hoc changes that Jadzia went through early on really felt quite forced and unnatural. Other characters also changed over the course of the series, but in their case it felt like more of a natural progression. For that reason I liked seeing the development of Bashir and O'Brien and Kira and so on.


A lot of the reactions of other characters felt like the writers telling us: "Hey. This woman's wise. This woman's feisty. This woman is the kind of person that men will drool over." But they and / or Farrell did not really deomonstrate that any of these things were intrinsically true of her character. When she was trying to be tough, she just came off like some peeved schoolgirl who had broken a nail, or something. The most I can really say about her from the first three or so seasons is, "Erm... She was there." And that's frustrating.


Garak saying things like "She was vibrant. She owned herself." just felt like more of the same - writers telling us how to feel. And when she died I was glad it was her and not someone else.


PS. Hate to have to say this, but a better actress might have been able to give Dax "nuances".


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2016

Report this Jul. 22 2011, 8:49 pm

I can definitely see your point.  But that just proves that as complex as Jadzia was she was still a woman in many different kinds of ways.  Maybe it was that aspect that made me miss her so much when Ezri didn't appeal to me.  Like I said I didn't hate Ezri like a lot of people did when she came on.  And I think had I been in charge of DS9 I would have eased her character in similarly, but not wasted entire episodes on her.  The best example I can think of is how Bellesario introduced Major General Criswell (that was when David Andrews replaced John Jackson as the JAG).  He didn't try to force him in, he gradually allowed him to do his thing.  I think that is how I would have done Ezri.  Keep her a major player but not a focal point.  (I did like that episode where she went home however.)  I then would have made DS9 end so epic that it would have been considered hands down the best Trek series ever.  (and I hardly would have changed the ending).

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Jul. 22 2011, 9:07 pm

That's the thing though; I never saw Jadzia as complex -- just moderately bland. It didn't really effect my enjoyment of the series, because she was just kind of there. And then when she died, she was just kind of not there. Which is the most I can really say about her.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

moooooggiieeee!

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2

Report this Jul. 23 2011, 6:49 am

what were they thinking when they gave Ezri the Symbiant? "Old Man?" i felt no connection between Ezri and Sisco.

Mantaray

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2793

Report this Jul. 25 2011, 6:35 am

Quote: moooooggiieeee! @ Jul. 23 2011, 6:49 am

>

>what were they thinking when they gave Ezri the Symbiant? "Old Man?" i felt no connection between Ezri and Sisco.

>


They weren't.  To me this was a vindictive move by the producers to belittle Farrell for leaving.   It failed miserably.


 

Mantaray

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2793

Report this Jul. 25 2011, 6:36 am

Quote: moooooggiieeee! @ Jul. 23 2011, 6:49 am

>

>what were they thinking when they gave Ezri the Symbiant? "Old Man?" i felt no connection between Ezri and Sisco.

>


They weren't.  To me this was a vindictive move by the producers to belittle Farrell for leaving.   It failed miserably.


 

Mantaray

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2793

Report this Jul. 25 2011, 6:37 am

Quote: moooooggiieeee! @ Jul. 23 2011, 6:49 am

>

>what were they thinking when they gave Ezri the Symbiant? "Old Man?" i felt no connection between Ezri and Sisco.

>


They weren't.  To me this was a vindictive move by the producers to belittle Farrell for leaving.   It failed miserably.


 

WeyounisDead

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1

Report this Jul. 30 2011, 2:49 pm

I really liked Jadzia, but I adjusted to Ezri very well. There was a big connection with Sisko that was lacking with her, but Jadzia had been there for six of seven seasons, so Ezri had a lot of things to catch up with anyway, and otherwise she did it really well.


It was sad not to see Jadzia there at the end of it all though, not even in flashbacks. That was terrible.

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Jul. 30 2011, 7:33 pm

Quote: Mantaray @ Jul. 25 2011, 6:37 am

Quote: moooooggiieeee! @ Jul. 23 2011, 6:49 am

>

>

>what were they thinking when they gave Ezri the Symbiant? "Old Man?" i felt no connection between Ezri and Sisco.

>

They weren't.  To me this was a vindictive move by the producers to belittle Farrell for leaving.   It failed miserably.

 


Whether it worked or not, I doubt that it was vindictive. Look at it this way -- if they had not introduced Ezri (or another female character) that would have left one woman (Kira) in the title cast. Star Trek and sci-fi is unbalanced enough already when it comes to male-female ratios.


Views on whether Ezri failed or succeeded in her role will always differ. But regardless of this, I doubt that there was vindictiveness on the part of the writers -- and equally it is perfectly within Sisko's character that he would refer to Ezri as "old man".


Also, regardless of whether it worked or not (again, our opinions will differ -- this is not the issue I'm putting forward...) it was good I think that they made Ezri as different as possible, and not just "Jadzia Mark II." Now that would have sucked.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Mantaray

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2793

Report this Aug. 05 2011, 10:53 am

Quote: OtakuJo @ Jul. 30 2011, 7:33 pm

>

>Whether it worked or not, I doubt that it was vindictive. Look at it this way -- if they had not introduced Ezri (or another female character) that would have left one woman (Kira) in the title cast. Star Trek and sci-fi is unbalanced enough already when it comes to male-female ratios.

>Views on whether Ezri failed or succeeded in her role will always differ. But regardless of this, I doubt that there was vindictiveness on the part of the writers -- and equally it is perfectly within Sisko's character that he would refer to Ezri as "old man".

>Also, regardless of whether it worked or not (again, our opinions will differ -- this is not the issue I'm putting forward...) it was good I think that they made Ezri as different as possible, and not just "Jadzia Mark II." Now that would have sucked.

>


It was clearly vindictive to me, as there was no reason to add a new character in the final season with such a strong established story line.  Sorry.


I think if you took a poll the overwhelming majority would say that Ezri was a mistake in the final season.  Historicallly, the polls on this site have reflected that the Ezri inclusion for one season was a mistake.   It was a failure.


I never made a gender count as to how many "woman" or "men" were in the cast at any point in time, nor do i think it is relevant.   A good character stands on its own....regardless of gender, race, or alien affiliation.


The the 1,000th time, I agree that the idea behind Ezri was a good concept, but a failed execution.   She should have been introduced on Voyager and had time to flush out her character overtime.   Voyager could have used something to make it watchable.


 

DJToph86

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2

Report this Aug. 06 2011, 8:53 pm

Jadzia was the best at what she done they should not have killed her off.

lostshaker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2293

Report this Aug. 10 2011, 5:41 pm

The writers didn't have to try hard at all to fit Ezri in. It was the natural thing for the Dax symbiont, should it survive, to be passed onto a new host. And given Ezri's trauma of an unprepared joining, it was logical, even therapeutic, for her to explore memories and emotions for which she was unready.


Only thing that would've been cooler is if the writers had foreshadowed Ezri by having her appear in a sixth season mirror episode.

Dendodge

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 945

Report this Aug. 10 2011, 5:43 pm

Quote: lostshaker @ Aug. 10 2011, 5:41 pm

>

>Only thing that would've been cooler is if the writers had foreshadowed Ezri by having her appear in a sixth season mirror episode.

>


I, for one, wouldn't have complained.  Mirror Ezri was HOT!


OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Aug. 10 2011, 10:02 pm

Quote: Mantaray @ Aug. 05 2011, 10:53 am

>

>I think if you took a poll the overwhelming majority would say that Ezri was a mistake in the final season.

>


Majority rules, is that it?


Perhaps it would show such results, but I've always felt that people should go with their own instincts on these matters, not by what everyone else tells them they should think.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum