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Has anyone else made the connection between the merging of V'Ger and Will Decker as the creation of the Borg?

Naysmith

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Report this May. 19 2011, 11:45 am

Has anyone else made the connection between the merging of V'Ger and Will Decker, (ST The Motion Picture), as the creation of the Borg? If this has been visited somewhere in the franchise, I apologize, I must have missed it.


They make deference to a all machine life form that repaired and enhanced V'Ger, then in the end, in order to understand the universe better, it absorbs, (or dare I say, assimilate), Decker. I don't see it as a very large leap, to then say that the mechanical entity’s realize that to add “carbon units” to it's mechanical units would create a new level of “perfection”, and so on.


If I'm off, please let me know. I just found the thought intriguing, and wanted to know what others thought.

Treknoir

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Report this May. 19 2011, 12:00 pm

The Borg existed prior to the events in TMP.


The precise origins of the Borg are unclear. As of 1484 they were reported as controlling only a handful of systems in the Delta Quadrant, but by 2373 they had assimilated thousands of worlds. In addition to this stronghold in the Delta Quadrant, the Borg also dispatched vessels throughout the galaxy via transwarp conduits. (VOY: "Dragon's Teeth", "Scorpion", "Endgame")


http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Borg


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Trekwolf164

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Report this May. 19 2011, 12:22 pm

There is a book that picks up on the Decker V-Ger story. It does not involve the Borg,I will say that much.


I think it is called Dues Ex Machina I murdered that title been a long time since I read it but it is a very good book.

Milo T'Kairum Vega

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Report this May. 19 2011, 1:24 pm

sounds like a savvy title ;D definitely makes me want to read it. I've always like Will and Ilia, so sweet :3

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this May. 19 2011, 2:06 pm

"Has anyone else made the connection between the merging of V'Ger and Will Decker as the creation of the Borg?"


Yes. Loads of people. But it's discounted by most people. For one, both V'Ger and Decker wanted to be more than what they were, and were driven by curiosity, while the Borg wanted to assimilate and "bring perfection." Not quite the same thing. Also, V'Ger had weapons and energy-producing means that surpassed the Borg's capabilities by several orders of magnitude. It's ridiculous to think that V'Ger would go from something as powerful as it was to something that is, by comparison, pathetically weak. And, finally, the Borg backstory was established, and had nothing to do with V'Ger.

Ezri Janeway

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Report this May. 19 2011, 3:04 pm

The first two Borg were created by the Caeliar (I think it's spelled correctly but dont hold breath), who were both Starfleet humans before becoming Borg.

toranaprem

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Report this May. 19 2011, 6:18 pm

Quote: Treknoir @ May. 19 2011, 12:00 pm

>

>The Borg existed prior to the events in TMP.

>The precise origins of the Borg are unclear. As of 1484 they were reported as controlling only a handful of systems in the Delta Quadrant, but by 2373 they had assimilated thousands of worlds. In addition to this stronghold in the Delta Quadrant, the Borg also dispatched vessels throughout the galaxy via transwarp conduits. (VOY: "Dragon's Teeth", "Scorpion", "Endgame")

>http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Borg

>


This.


Also Decker and Ilia joined with V'Ger to teach it love.


Sure, they may have epically failed, but I don't see the Borg as being the logical result of their failure. I do think the return of V'Ger in the 24th century would have been a neat plot device used in a later series, but I think it would have functioned as a kind of "anti-Borg", a machine capable of human love that would challenge our notions of humanity in far more disturbing ways than the assimilating Borg ever could.


"What will they find when I am ripped apart? 'I love you, captain' written on my heart."

Matthias Russell

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Report this May. 20 2011, 5:21 am

The game Destiny is based upon this premise.  The concept has been thoroughly explored but rejected by the mainstream for the reasons already cited.


NomFeradii

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Report this May. 20 2011, 2:52 pm

Actually according to Star Trek:  the Return, V'Ger was actually found as a damageed satellite by the Borg and rebuilt as V'Ger.  So V'ger does have a connection to the Borg just not as their origin.

Ziriath

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Report this May. 21 2011, 2:23 am

Stories about The Borg: Awesome!


Movie about V'Ger : Boring as hell.


Therefore,  no connection.


I think the Borg could be older, than the events in TMP. Maybe they existed many years before, then dissapeared somewhere in the space, and in the times of TNG returned back. Many borg drones do not have to be necessarily humans. They can be Vulcans, Rommies, etc, but it's not easy to recognize them, when you do not see the ears under the helmets and when Borgs have no eyebrows. First borgs could be alien, I think.


THE WOMEN!!!

OtakuJo

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Report this May. 21 2011, 2:35 am

I tend to think too that since their "homebase" is closer to the Delta Quadrant, their origins are most likely there as well. But there have been so many theories and speculative stories presented as to the origins of the Borg. All are entertaining. None are the "final word" on the matter.


But the Borg are also prolific time-travellers, so it is all the more difficult to pinpoint a recognisable origin. The V'ger theory is not unsupportable IMO.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Ghostmojo

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Report this May. 21 2011, 9:02 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ May. 19 2011, 12:22 pm

>

>There is a book that picks up on the Decker V-Ger story. It does not involve the Borg,I will say that much.

>I think it is called Dues Ex Machina I murdered that title been a long time since I read it but it is a very good book.

>


Yes it is called Ex Machina. I finished reading it recently. It follows on from the TV episode For The World Is Hollow ... and has no reference to the Borg. The references to Vger and Decker are there but only incidentally (as recent events) to the main story.


The Borg are bad guys. They would not have sent a rejuvenated Vger back to earth - they would have gone themselves with a mind to assimilation. The machine-planet dwellers who repaired Voyager and converted it recognised a kindred spirit of sorts - but it was not a cyborg type creature - and neither I suspect were they...


to boldy go where no man has gone before

OtakuJo

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Report this May. 21 2011, 6:38 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Since the Borg were in ENT (well before the events in TMP) then according to canon, the events of TMP couldn't have created the Borg unless you factor in time-travel.

>


Actually there is a time-travel factor to that, since the Borg in Enterprise were from the same sphere as was sent back and subsequently destroyed in First Contact.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

NCC1980

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 11:40 am

The game LEGACY explores the possible connection.

3 of 12

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Report this Jun. 04 2011, 11:25 pm

The Borg are just the most interesting species in the star trek universe at this time. But I don't see the v'ger - Borg connection.


Are you worthy of being added to the Collective's perfection?

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