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Vulcan Names

UFP2009

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Report this Apr. 23 2011, 5:52 pm

 



Vulcan family names; I have noticed that in the Star Trek universe, Vulcan names are arranged a certain way; such as males Spock or Sarek with no surnames, females T'Pau, T'Pring, T'pol or her mother T'Les all use a T in the beginning of their names. I propose a standard for this system; the males in Vulcan society use the given birth name as a standard however, Spock and Sarek could have surnames and use son of as to follow Spock'Sorchekitet son of Sarek'Sorchekitet (as an example) difficult to pronounce by humans. Of the females the surname as a sign of who they belong to. The T in T'Pau could represent the given birth name Toosat'Pau (Just an example)or Tuma'Pol, just as we use A. Margaret, meaning Anne Margaret. T'Les could be Tosha'Les,using her maiden name again and was previously Tosha'Pol while her husband was alive. Originally in Star Fleet Vulcan females were allowed to use such names as T'Pol but as the Federation grown and regulation changes were made, only the surname would be used for all personnel as in commander Pol or Lt. Savvek. To avoid confusion, birth names starting with a certain letter are restricted to the provinces or land on Vulcan one was born in.


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___Lucifer___

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Report this Apr. 23 2011, 8:32 pm

How does Selar fit into all this?



 


OtakuJo

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Report this Apr. 23 2011, 9:08 pm

Or Saavik for that matter.


I think of it like the Mc in McDonald or the O' in O'Reilly. Some names have the T' prefix, (for want of a better word) and others do not.


Latin given names on the other hand have very few possibilities (Gaius, Marius, Quintus, Lucius, Publius etc.) which are also often shortened as in G. Julius Caesar. Somehow I don't suspect that this is the same with Vulcan names as T'Pol is given name, not shared by her mother.


The prefix is more likely.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

UFP2009

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Report this Apr. 24 2011, 11:22 am

Quote: OtakuJo @ Apr. 23 2011, 9:08 pm

>

>Or Saavik for that matter.

>I think of it like the Mc in McDonald or the O' in O'Reilly. Some names have the T' prefix, (for want of a better word) and others do not.

>Latin given names on the other hand have very few possibilities (Gaius, Marius, Quintus, Lucius, Publius etc.) which are also often shortened as in G. Julius Caesar. Somehow I don't suspect that this is the same with Vulcan names as T'Pol is given name, not shared by her mother.

>The prefix is more likely.

>
Is it ST canon? If not, examine my proposal carefully and think about it; don't just briefly read it.


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UFP2009

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Report this Apr. 24 2011, 11:33 am

That Mc for McDonald or O for O'Rielly could have stood for a first or birth name in the past; for some reason it could have been combined later. My curiosity is that there is a dicrpancy in Vulcan name not clarified; this is my discovery according to what I have seen in ST because fulcans don't talk about family names.

___Lucifer___

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Report this Apr. 24 2011, 12:08 pm

The prefixes "Mc" and "O" mean "son of" IIRC.


___Lucifer___

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Report this Apr. 24 2011, 12:08 pm

Oh yeah...Valeris too!


OtakuJo

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Report this Apr. 24 2011, 3:59 pm

Quote: ___Lucifer___ @ Apr. 24 2011, 12:08 pm

>

>The prefixes "Mc" and "O" mean "son of" IIRC.

>


Yup. That's right. Similar to "~son" in Norse derived surnames.


-----
Oh and I did think about what you had said UFP. Please do me the courtesy of not just assuming otherwise. Linguistics is of great interest to me so I gave the matter great consideration. It is partly these exceptions (and the high probability that T'Pol is a given name, since her mother does not share the same appellation) that led me to believe that Mc and O' are more closely analogous. Just because someone doesn't instantly agree with you does not mean that they have not considered your argument.


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UFP2009

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Report this Apr. 24 2011, 9:14 pm

Of the females the surname as a sign of who they belong to. The T in T'Pau could represent the given birth name Toosat'Pau (Just an example)or Tuma'Pol, just as we use A. Margaret, meaning Anne Margaret. T'Les could be Tosha'Les,using her maiden name again and was previously Tosha'Pol while her husband was alive.


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___Lucifer___

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Report this Apr. 24 2011, 9:20 pm

Quote: UFP2009 @ Apr. 24 2011, 9:14 pm

>

>Of the females the surname as a sign of who they belong to. The T in T'Pau could represent the given birth name Toosat'Pau (Just an example)or Tuma'Pol, just as we use A. Margaret, meaning Anne Margaret. T'Les could be Tosha'Les,using her maiden name again and was previously Tosha'Pol while her husband was alive.

>


Why are you yelling at us?? And this is old text from the OP.


UFP2009

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Report this Apr. 24 2011, 9:24 pm

Quote: OtakuJo @ Apr. 23 2011, 9:08 pm

>

>Or Saavik for that matter.

>I think of it like the Mc in McDonald or the O' in O'Reilly. Some names have the T' prefix, (for want of a better word) and others do not.

>Latin given names on the other hand have very few possibilities (Gaius, Marius, Quintus, Lucius, Publius etc.) which are also often shortened as in G. Julius Caesar. Somehow I don't suspect that this is the same with Vulcan names as T'Pol is given name, not shared by her mother.

>The prefix is more likely.

>
The T could indicate a given name and Pol a family name; her mother's name is T'Les but the Les could have been her maiden name and when she married took on her husbands surname,Pol giving her the name T'Pol.


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OtakuJo

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Report this Apr. 24 2011, 11:59 pm

I understood the proposal right from the beginning I just don't find it very likely. The Romans had a very similar system for male given names, as I said -- of which there were less than ten, so they could be recognisably abbreviated to C. L. P. and so on.


Go~ and O~ tend to be used as honorific prefixes (to make a word more formal / polite. Although this tends to be used more for words and general pronouns ~~ Otousan meaning Father eg.) In Japanese, at least. I understand what the OP is talking about, but having thought about it I still find it unlikely. But while we're thinking of baby names, there is a trend in Japan to use less baby girl names ending in ~ko, (although this is still popular) and more ending in ~mi or ~na.


The T' prefix I would think is more akin to the Japanese ~ko than Miss... Apostrophe suggests that T' is likely short for something (as with O' meaning Of) and (purely speculatively) may have developed from some previously similar geographic / linguistic source on Vulcan. But like the ending ~ok or ~ek (Tuvok, Sarek) it is likely to have developed into a simple quirk of some given names.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

UFP2009

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Report this Apr. 25 2011, 12:53 pm

Quote: OtakuJo @ Apr. 24 2011, 11:59 pm

>

>I understood the proposal right from the beginning I just don't find it very likely. The Romans had a very similar system for male given names, as I said -- of which there were less than ten, so they could be recognisably abbreviated to C. L. P. and so on.

>Go~ and O~ tend to be used as honorific prefixes (to make a word more formal / polite. Although this tends to be used more for words and general pronouns ~~ Otousan meaning Father eg.) In Japanese, at least. I understand what the OP is talking about, but having thought about it I still find it unlikely. But while we're thinking of baby names, there is a trend in Japan to use less baby girl names ending in ~ko, (although this is still popular) and more ending in ~mi or ~na.

>The T' prefix I would think is more akin to the Japanese ~ko than Miss... Apostrophe suggests that T' is likely short for something (as with O' meaning Of) and (purely speculatively) may have developed from some previously similar geographic / linguistic source on Vulcan. But like the ending ~ok or ~ek (Tuvok, Sarek) it is likely to have developed into a simple quirk of some given names.

>
The earthly comparison is only an example; my arguement and solution is that there is nothing concrete by the creators of ST so I offer a solution we can relate to yet is also alien.


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UFP2009

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Report this Apr. 25 2011, 1:01 pm

I'm also trying to write a short novel about the UFP, so many things I'm coming across have not been addressed; what ever I write needs to be canon or in line with the ST universe or acceptable to it.


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luvy4532

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Report this Apr. 27 2011, 10:48 am

If I remember correctly many vulcans names started with a S in respect tp Surak.  Not all obviously.  The T before a female's name also had a meaning in Vulcan society but that escapes me at the moment as I am using my memory right now .      


 


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