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Anyone feel they ran outta ideas when it came to the TNG Movies?

ConservativeTrekker007

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POSTS: 48

Report this Apr. 19 2011, 6:47 pm

I like TNG. Don't get me wrong. But First Contact was a "Popcorn" movie. It played loose with Trek lore and it didnt seem like a "Normal" Trek film. It was very "Shoot'em up". Insurrection seemed more like a glorified 2 part episode. And Nemesis......Please!.....Need I say more?


"I didn't start it.....But I'm liable to finish it!"

Sora

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Report this Apr. 19 2011, 8:20 pm

Yeah I can agree with you here. While I do love the TNG films, none of them really feel like films. They all feel like two or three part episodes that were crammed into one long episode.


Perhaps they should've scrapped TNG films all together and spread out the remaining 4 films over with some of the other series. Maybe TNG just wasn't a good series to do movies for?


 

Trajan

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Report this Apr. 19 2011, 8:32 pm

The problem wasn't that they ran out of ideas, the problem was that they kept running the same idea over and over again.


 


A world, or worlds, in danger of being destroyed.  The galaxy in danger of being destroyed.  That crap is just played out.  In film, in television, in every form of media.


 


A riveting film isn't made so by how much is at stake for the universe, it is made riveting by how much is at stake for your characters.


 


This is something I think most writers have forgotten.  Wrath of Khan is a good example for Star Trek.  Yeah they threw Genesis in there, but the crux of the story is and always was Khan's desire for revenge.  Nothing less.  Nothing more.


 


Such simple stakes, and an unwavering dedication by your character to have that desire fulfilled, that is what makes a good story.


 


I really hope to see Star Trek move away from such high stakes stories and get back to more personal ones.  That way when a true threat manifests itself, and not a threat manifested for the sake of manifestation, we will feel the full weight of it.


 


The Best of Both Worlds being the perfect example.

rocketscientist

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Report this Apr. 19 2011, 10:01 pm

Good observations Trajan!  I enjoyed reading them.


 

ConservativeTrekker007

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Report this Apr. 19 2011, 10:24 pm

The first TNG Movie Generations was a "Revenge" type story. As was Insurrection from the perspective of the Son'a. But your quite correct. The personal stories seem to be more interesting. Which is why The Search For Spock is my all time favorite movie. Thanks for the reply.


"I didn't start it.....But I'm liable to finish it!"

RomulanValdore

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Report this Apr. 19 2011, 11:38 pm

I liked all the movies and first contact was a great movie IMO.

DammitJim6200

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Report this Apr. 20 2011, 2:06 am

Quote: Trajan @ Apr. 19 2011, 8:32 pm

>

>The problem wasn't that they ran out of ideas, the problem was that they kept running the same idea over and over again.

>A world, or worlds, in danger of being destroyed.  The galaxy in danger of being destroyed.  That crap is just played out.  In film, in television, in every form of media.

>A riveting film isn't made so by how much is at stake for the universe, it is made riveting by how much is at stake for your characters.

>This is something I think most writers have forgotten.  Wrath of Khan is a good example for Star Trek.  Yeah they threw Genesis in there, but the crux of the story is and always was Khan's desire for revenge.  Nothing less.  Nothing more.

>Such simple stakes, and an unwavering dedication by your character to have that desire fulfilled, that is what makes a good story.

>I really hope to see Star Trek move away from such high stakes stories and get back to more personal ones.  That way when a true threat manifests itself, and not a threat manifested for the sake of manifestation, we will feel the full weight of it.

>The Best of Both Worlds being the perfect example.

>


I think they didn't use the right talent, Rick Berman and Mike Piller wanted to stick to the SAME formula that worked for TV, but movies are different and should be an EPIC though Generations came close, They should had use someone like Chris Nolan or the writer for Iron man, TNG WAS NOT DONE, it just needed a new direction, because when TNG is good, NO TREK CAN COME CLOSE !   

Matthias Russell

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Report this Apr. 20 2011, 5:21 am

Generations wasn't about revenge. Who wanted revenge in that movie? Generations was about mortality and dealt with the issue quite well. I think FC was the only one that felt more like a movie then an episode but liked Generations very much as well. But you can say the same about the TOS movies. Most of them felt like tv; shoot, TMP was a repackaged tv pilot!

Ghostmojo

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Report this Apr. 20 2011, 11:41 am

Yes they did run out of ideas. There was only really one good film and that was First Contact. It explored an interesting theme that belonged wholly to TNG. But that one film would have been enough.


I loved TNG as a series - but the concept was never strong enough to take to the movies for a long run. TNG was basically about Picard and Data. The others didn't add or do much in the movies.

Trajan

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Report this Apr. 20 2011, 4:21 pm

To this day I still cannot figure out why they never brought Q onboard as a major villain for one of the TNG films, especially in a film like Generations, where you need to have both crews of the Enterprise interacting.


I would probably agree that Berman and co. were just out of their league. But at the end of the day that's Paramount's fault.  They should've had the foresight, or even hindsight, to see the writing on the wall.


 

2takesfrakes

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Report this Apr. 20 2011, 4:53 pm



Excuse me?! Why single out NEXT GENERATION®?
Out of Eleven (11) STAR TREK movies, fewer
than half were monsterously huge hits:

(Arguably) The Motion Picture
THE VOYAGE HOME
FIRST CONTACT
STAR TREK

With all the rest of the movies of varying
quality, from WRATH of KHAN all the way down
to the likes of FINAL FRONTIER and NEMESIS.

STAR TREK has NEVER translated well as a MOVIE
franchise ... until, perhaps, recently. Some of
the ideas that went wrong, like the Nexus, had
so much potential that got lost. It's not that
the IDEAS weren't there. They just weren't being
properly explored, or executed, that's all ...

AtoZ2

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Report this Apr. 20 2011, 5:34 pm

Besides just running dry of recycled idea's the characters themselves were lack luster, interchangeable mono emotional dysfunctional 1980's TV stereotypes.
Basically nothing more then soap opera TV in space, hence their translations onto the big screen would fall flat with both fans and critics, save a few repugnant TNG fans.

AtoZ2

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Report this Apr. 20 2011, 6:46 pm

Quote: Sora @ Apr. 19 2011, 8:20 pm

>

>Yeah I can agree with you here. While I do love the TNG films, none of them really feel like films. They all feel like two or three part episodes that were crammed into one long episode.

>Perhaps they should've scrapped TNG films all together and spread out the remaining 4 films over with some of the other series. Maybe TNG just wasn't a good series to do movies for?

>


 


BINGO!


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coastcityo

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Report this Apr. 20 2011, 6:57 pm

TMP is a favorite of some fans, bit there is no argument that can be made to put it in the "hit film" categories of Kahn, Voyage, 1st Contact, or 2009 (my least favorite Trek film ever). It was hated by critics and fans when it first came out in theatres, and needed Kahn to save the franchise afterwards. I remember, because I was one of those fans seeing it when it first premiered, and instantly hating it along with everyone I knew at the time. This wasn't one of those 2009 debates, where some loved, some liked, and some hated it. This film was a dog and a flop.


As to the debate about TNG films and other Trek films being too shoot-em-up, blame Khan for that one. It was too action packed and successful for its own good, and kind of laid down the rules of what made a Trek film from then on (with the exception of Voyage Home, thankfully).


"Lions and Gigers and Bears..." "Oh my."

ConservativeTrekker007

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Report this Apr. 20 2011, 7:52 pm

@Matthias Russell Thanks, I actually meant Nemesis. Huge typo. "The LAST Trek movie NEMESIS" is what it should've read.


"I didn't start it.....But I'm liable to finish it!"

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