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Was Trip's Death necessary?

rocketscientist

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Report this Apr. 25 2011, 10:11 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Apr. 21 2011, 11:00 am

>Trip's death was actually worse than Kirk or Data's to me, not because of the way he died but the events that led up to it just made no sense. I still love how Berman said in the interview that he still doesn't understand where they went wrong in that episode.


You aren't surprised he said that, are you, Matthias? 


If you read through his interviews it becomes very apparent that Berman just doesn't understand a lot of things about the franchise.  I honestly think his co-producers had more to do with the success of the franchise than he did, at least in a creative sense. 


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

rocketscientist

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Report this Apr. 25 2011, 10:17 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Apr. 25 2011, 4:11 am

>And the same cheap trick in deciding to kill Janeway in the books. That decision was made in an effort to get the emotional response star wars got when they killed chewy (which only angered fans). Trek is really bad about killing characters fans get emotionally attached to in dumb ways. But then, death doesn't ask the best way to go. I could have lived with Trip's death if the events preceding it made sense.


It all goes back to what Meyer said about killing Spock.  The audience will accept it if it's done well.  It doesn't sound like Trip (or Data or Kirk) died well. 


I read an interview where Brag talked about TATV, how he now understands why the fans hated it.  He killed Trip to elicit an emotional response from the audience, and it sounds like he totally botched it. 


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

Matthias Russell

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Report this Apr. 26 2011, 4:03 am

It just seemed they were so desperate to kill someone that they have little thought to it making sense. The death was heroic and in character but didn't fit into the story or flow. If they had written a better episode, they wouldn't have had to force an emotional response, it would have just came.

They got their emotional response though, anger and hatred. So kudos to them.

Bite Me, Janeway was assimilated by the Borg who used her as their new queen vessel to replace the one she destroyed. This was the editorial direction given to Peter David for Before Dishonor. However, he had Q save her just before she was destroyed where she now resides with them. He did this knowing it was a bad decision to kill Janeway and he wanted it left open for her to be brought back side she isn't REALLY dead.

Six of Nine

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Report this Apr. 26 2011, 4:19 am

Quote: rocketscientist @ Apr. 25 2011, 10:17 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Apr. 25 2011, 4:11 am

>

>And the same cheap trick in deciding to kill Janeway in the books. That decision was made in an effort to get the emotional response star wars got when they killed chewy (which only angered fans). Trek is really bad about killing characters fans get emotionally attached to in dumb ways. But then, death doesn't ask the best way to go. I could have lived with Trip's death if the events preceding it made sense.

It all goes back to what Meyer said about killing Spock.  The audience will accept it if it's done well.  It doesn't sound like Trip (or Data or Kirk) died well. 

I read an interview where Brag talked about TATV, how he now understands why the fans hated it.  He killed Trip to elicit an emotional response from the audience, and it sounds like he totally botched it. 

 


I agree with what all you say, Trip and Malcolm was the reason I watched ENT, I was so mad.


If you read "The Good that men do" By Micheal A. Martin and Andy Mangles


He is alive in this book


As a wise man once wrote, : "Nature decays, but latinum lasts forever".

Matthias Russell

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Report this Apr. 26 2011, 4:24 am

That book did a superb job cleaning up the mess.

Trekwolf164

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Report this Apr. 26 2011, 4:56 am





rocketscientist


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Report this Apr. 26 2011, 5:17 am







Quote: Matthias Russell @ Apr. 25 2011, 4:11 am






>And the same cheap trick in deciding to kill Janeway in the books. That decision was made in an effort to get the emotional response star wars got when they killed chewy (which only angered fans). Trek is really bad about killing characters fans get emotionally attached to in dumb ways. But then, death doesn't ask the best way to go. I could have lived with Trip's death if the events preceding it made sense.






 




It all goes back to what Meyer said about killing Spock.  The audience will accept it if it's done well.  It doesn't sound like Trip (or Data or Kirk) died well. 




I read an interview where Brag talked about TATV, how he now understands why the fans hated it.  He killed Trip to elicit an emotional response from the audience, and it sounds like he totally botched it.


I agree 




 







rocketscientist

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Report this Apr. 26 2011, 7:50 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Apr. 26 2011, 4:03 am

>It just seemed they were so desperate to kill someone that they have little thought to it making sense. The death was heroic and in character but didn't fit into the story or flow. If they had written a better episode, they wouldn't have had to force an emotional response, it would have just came. They got their emotional response though, anger and hatred. So kudos to them.


Yeah, the same response they got from many fans after they killed Kirk in GEN.  It's puzzling that Braga apparently didn't learn anything from that experience.  I think his then-partner, Ron Moore did. 


It's all in how it's done.  The death of a major character has to serve both the plot and, imo, has to have a lot of dramatic heft.  It should provoke a strong emotional response from the other characters.  Writers should milk that for all that it's worth.  Spock's death, and the death of the Enterprise really hurt, but most of the audience, I think, accepted them.  


I just don't think Kirk's death was done well at all.  Nimoy was right, it wasn't really important to the story.  It felt extremely contrived, due to the poor script. 


I'm not sure Data's was done as well as it could have been either.


And, from what I've read about Trip's death (I liked that guy), it may be the worst of the lot. 


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

wissa

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Report this Apr. 26 2011, 8:31 am

I think it might have been interesting foreshadow if the series had continued.  He would go about living his life like he expected to be an old man while the audience knew his time was limited.


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jeff.kirk

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Report this Apr. 28 2011, 3:36 pm

I was unhappy with it. I really liked his character, and to kill him off seemed like a kick in the gut to fans.

Six of Nine

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Report this Apr. 28 2011, 4:03 pm

He didnt die he was in Stargate Atlantis


As a wise man once wrote, : "Nature decays, but latinum lasts forever".

First Officer Gillett

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Report this May. 04 2011, 7:22 pm

Not at all. When i first saw the episode and Trip was going into the CAT-scan-like machine, i thought he was going to survive. It was only when Archer was talking to T'Pol and said that he was dead that I realised it. His death was COMPLETELY unecessary the series could have been completely fine without his death. All it did was make me feel even more depresed about watching the series (the other thing that made me depressed was that the hole series sucked, the only good part was the last episode that stared Riker).


 


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First Officer Gillett

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Report this May. 04 2011, 7:22 pm

Not at all. When i first saw the episode and Trip was going into the CAT-scan-like machine, i thought he was going to survive. It was only when Archer was talking to T'Pol and said that he was dead that I realised it. His death was COMPLETELY unecessary the series could have been completely fine without his death. All it did was make me feel even more depresed about watching the series (the other thing that made me depressed was that the hole series sucked, the only good part was the last episode that stared Riker).


 


Felicitations, fellow Alpha Quadrant residents. I am the First Officer from the Galaxy Class U.S.S. Magnus.

tahmtahm

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Report this May. 04 2011, 8:28 pm

Trip's death was not necessary.  I just read Last Full Measure and Trip is alive and well in his old age visiting the memorial site. 


I look at it this way, 'death' in Star Trek doesn't really mean you're dead.  


Long live Trip! 

Matthias Russell

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Report this May. 05 2011, 4:17 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Trip died so wipe away the stain of his relationship with T'Pol left upon the entire franchise.



Was it like a Clinton-Lewinsky stain?

guillermo.mejía

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Report this May. 05 2011, 5:23 pm

I don't see how it was necesary, specially after the great story with T'Pol and Terra Firma.


'These are the Voyages' felt like the story was only a second thought, a vehicle used to get as much random things as posible that would spark interest, such as Trip dieing and having Riker and Troi there.


I much prefer the novels' version of the events. Sure I don't see Trip as a spy, but he was a Jack of all Trades anyways.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

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