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Kobayashi Maru

Matthias Russell

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 12:28 pm

In Wrath of Khan and ST09, the Kirks pass the Kobayashi Maru the same way- cheating. Prime universe Kirk got a commendation for his method whereas Nero-verse Kirk is nearly expelled. Why were they treated differently?

BTW, because Abrams is stupid, I hate ST09, and ST09 isn't really star trek are not valid answers.

Kroll rides again

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 12:37 pm

Well they never actually did anything to him in ST '09 they were having that big meeting about it when all hell breaks loose and everyone has to get up to the Star Ships.

saiboy12

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 12:42 pm

Maybe with the diffrent time lines actions are changed as well. And it was Spock who brought the charges agenst Kirk in ST09. Do we know who accused Kirk of cheating ith the prime universie?

2takesfrakes

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 12:48 pm

Think about it:


- Kirk's abusive stepfather, apparently,
did not murder Kirk as a boy for wrecking
his hotrod by diving it into a gorge.


- Kirk gets blasted onto an ice-planet, where
Prime Spock just happens to be, and is saved
from the rectum monster, because he's awesome.


- Kirk bucks the system with his Kobyashi Maru
test and the system bucks him right back. But
THIS Kirk is too cool for school and gets the
center seat of ENTERPRISE ... because he rocks!


His skills, his charisma, his looks simply make
it impossible for him to fail, even when he tries to.
And he gets all the wymin, too. STAR TREK the reboot
wants to make it abundantly clear that James T. Kirk
... is cool. That's all. That's all it is.


KelisThePoet

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 1:05 pm

Quote: saiboy12 @ Mar. 29 2011, 12:42 pm

>Maybe with the diffrent time lines actions are changed as well. And it was Spock who brought the charges agenst Kirk in ST09. Do we know who accused Kirk of cheating ith the prime universie?


I have assumed since seeing the new Star Trek that Spock was involved in the administration of the test in the original time line, as well, and that perhaps he brought the charges of cheating in both time lines.  My reason is because the friendly, teasing banter between Kirk and Spock about the test in Star Trek II makes sense in the context of Kirk's cheating having been a point of contention in the two friends' lives, at an earlier time, when they were in effecct different people.  Also, Spock tells Kirk in Star Trek II, as he is dying, "I never took the Kobayashi Maru test.  What do you think of my solution?" or something very close to that effect.  Why didn't Spock, as a Starfleet Academy graduate, take the test?  The idea that he created the test seems as good an answer as any, and a fun one, given the added depth it gives to the dialogue from Star Trek II.


Falor was a prosperous merchant who went on a journey to gain greater awareness: Through storms he crossed the Voroth Sea/ To reach the clouded shores of Raal/ Where old T’Para offered truth./ He traveled through the windswept hills/ And crossed the barren Fire Plains/ To find the silent monks of Kir./ Still unfulfilled, he journeyed home/ Told stories of the lessons learned/ And gained true wisdom by the giving. – Falor’s Journey, “Innocence”

saiboy12

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 1:10 pm

Quote: KelisThePoet @ Mar. 29 2011, 1:05 pm

Quote: saiboy12 @ Mar. 29 2011, 12:42 pm

>

>Maybe with the diffrent time lines actions are changed as well. And it was Spock who brought the charges agenst Kirk in ST09. Do we know who accused Kirk of cheating ith the prime universie?

I have assumed since seeing the new Star Trek that Spock was involved in the administration of the test in the original time line, as well, and that perhaps he brought the charges of cheating in both time lines.  My reason is because the friendly, teasing banter between Kirk and Spock about the test in Star Trek II makes sense in the context of Kirk's cheating having been a point of contention in the two friends' lives, at an earlier time, when they were in effecct different people.  Also, Spock tells Kirk in Star Trek II, as he is dying, "I never took the Kobayashi Maru test.  What do you think of my solution?" or something very close to that effect.  Why didn't Spock, as a Starfleet Academy graduate, take the test?  The idea that he created the test seems as good an answer as any, and a fun one, given the added depth it gives to the dialogue from Star Trek II.


Good point.


 

toranaprem

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 1:31 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 29 2011, 12:28 pm

>In Wrath of Khan and ST09, the Kirks pass the Kobayashi Maru the same way- cheating. Prime universe Kirk got a commendation for his method whereas Nero-verse Kirk is nearly expelled. Why were they treated differently? BTW, because Abrams is stupid, I hate ST09, and ST09 isn't really star trek are not valid answers.


I think it needs to be pointed out that the way Kirk cheated in each timeline is different.


In the reboot they simply have him stealing the codes from Spock.


In the original universe it is implied that Kirk was smart enough to figure out how to rig the program on his own.


That difference is a BIG difference in my book, at least when it comes to Kirk's intelligence and whether or not you can still respect and admire what he did on the Kobayashi Maru even if he cheated either way.


"What will they find when I am ripped apart? 'I love you, captain' written on my heart."

toranaprem

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 1:35 pm

Quote: KelisThePoet @ Mar. 29 2011, 1:05 pm

Quote: saiboy12 @ Mar. 29 2011, 12:42 pm

>

>Maybe with the diffrent time lines actions are changed as well. And it was Spock who brought the charges agenst Kirk in ST09. Do we know who accused Kirk of cheating ith the prime universie?

I have assumed since seeing the new Star Trek that Spock was involved in the administration of the test in the original time line, as well, and that perhaps he brought the charges of cheating in both time lines.  My reason is because the friendly, teasing banter between Kirk and Spock about the test in Star Trek II makes sense in the context of Kirk's cheating having been a point of contention in the two friends' lives, at an earlier time, when they were in effecct different people.  Also, Spock tells Kirk in Star Trek II, as he is dying, "I never took the Kobayashi Maru test.  What do you think of my solution?" or something very close to that effect.  Why didn't Spock, as a Starfleet Academy graduate, take the test?  The idea that he created the test seems as good an answer as any, and a fun one, given the added depth it gives to the dialogue from Star Trek II.


My understanding is that Spock never took the Kobayashi Maru because that is a command-track test and he was never on a command-track.


"What will they find when I am ripped apart? 'I love you, captain' written on my heart."

Treknoir

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 1:48 pm

Wikipedia has a nice section on the test: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru


And in ST09 he didn't steal the codes from Spock. He reprogrammed the test after getting crucial information from Gaila who worked in the computer lab.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

toranaprem

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 1:53 pm

Quote: Treknoir @ Mar. 29 2011, 1:48 pm

>

>Wikipedia has a nice section on the test: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru

>And in ST09 he didn't steal the codes from Spock. He reprogrammed the test after getting crucial information from Gaila who worked in the computer lab.

>


Was the Gaila talking in her sleep thing in the movie too? I don't remember, I've only watched it once.


"What will they find when I am ripped apart? 'I love you, captain' written on my heart."

Treknoir

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 2:00 pm

No, they don't show him stealing the information in the movie. They just show Gaila and Kirk in their skivvies in the movie. The scene where he admits how he reprogrammed the simulation was cut from the theatrical release.


As much as I like ST09, I think a lot of good scenes were cut that should have been left in. Especially scenes dealing with Spock. But I'm biased.


 


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

saiboy12

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POSTS: 11

Report this Mar. 29 2011, 2:11 pm

Thats true in the Movie-tie in book Spock asks how he beat the test and he says Orians talk in their sleep.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 2:36 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 29 2011, 12:28 pm

>In Wrath of Khan and ST09, the Kirks pass the Kobayashi Maru the same way- cheating. Prime universe Kirk got a commendation for his method whereas Nero-verse Kirk is nearly expelled. Why were they treated differently? BTW, because Abrams is stupid, I hate ST09, and ST09 isn't really star trek are not valid answers.
And then they promote a cadet to the captaincy....


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Mar. 29 2011, 2:41 pm

years ago, I read the book "The Kobayashi Maru" and thought it was pretty good.

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Mar. 29 2011, 3:10 pm

I don't think Spock was involved in administering the test in prime universe. For one, I assume prime Kirk was younger when he started the academy due to having a different family situation. For 2, it is my understanding Kirk didn't know Spock until he took command of the Enterprise.

And although we don't know what would have happened if Nero didn't attack Vulcan at that moment, I believe he would not have been expelled but I don't think he would have gotten a commendation either.

A good point was made that Nero-verse Kirk cheated by perhaps stealing which would make a difference.

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