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Cloaking device

parrothead117

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Report this Mar. 14 2011, 7:20 pm

Why doesn't the Federation have cloaking technology?  It's inconceivable that the UFP doesn't have a piece of technology that the Klingons and Romulans have had for decades if not centuries.  What accounts for this?


I think, given what we eventually learn about Section 31's history and its reach, that the Federation does have cloaking technology.  Informants and infiltrators would have gotten the schematics for such devices from the Klingons and Romulans long ago.  But the powers that be choose not to make it common knowledge or install it on starships, or else Section 31 keeps it for its own private ships.


Anybody have any insights?


"We must strive to be more than we are, Lal. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." - Data, "The Offspring"

Vger23

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Report this Mar. 14 2011, 7:56 pm

You don't need a theory.


 


The Romulan / Federation Treaty of Algeron outlawed the Federation's use of cloaking technology. The only reason the USS Defiant had a cloak is because it was on loan from the Romaulan Star Empire.


The entire TNG episode "The Pegasus" was based around this.

Fflanders

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Report this Mar. 14 2011, 8:13 pm

Kirk and crew stole one in The Enterprise Incident while the Federation had to pretend that they knew nothing about it. It follows that the Federation keeps up with the technology. Just because the Federation doesn't openly use them, doesn't mean that they don't have/understand the technology.

parrothead117

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Report this Mar. 14 2011, 8:58 pm

Those are good points, and I remember the episodes you're mentioning.  But I could swear that it was also indicated, particularly in the DS9 episode in which The Defiant gets the device, that the Federation simply doesn't have the ability to make a cloaking device.  I'm probably wrong, though.  Indeed, after "The Enterprise Incident" they should have kept studying and updating the technology.


According to memory-alpha.org, the Treaty of Algeron prevents the Federation from "developing or using" a cloaking device, indicating that they indeed lack the capabilities to develop one.  And the same article mentions that in "The Pegasus," the cloaking device was created only with the assistance of Federation intelligence (retroactively, we can assume that this was Section 31).  So I think my question still stands.


"We must strive to be more than we are, Lal. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." - Data, "The Offspring"

Lieutenant_Jedi

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Report this Mar. 14 2011, 9:33 pm

Why doesn't the Federation have cloaking technology?  It's inconceivable that the UFP doesn't have a piece of technology that the Klingons and Romulans have had for decades if not centuries.  What accounts for this?


 


Actually your question has been answered by any available information. The TNG episode "the Pegasus" mentions the reason - an interstellar treaty. That is why they don't have one - it is illegal. 


As to the implications of that treaty and whether or not the Federation or Starfleet has violated it - anything beyond what was stated in the shows or Movies is just speculation. 


"Can you detect midi - chlorians with a tricorder?"

lnagr1

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Report this Mar. 15 2011, 12:38 am

I'm quite sure that there was a treaty signed agreeing to never developing cloaking devices, however they are capable of such a thing!

267198ed

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Report this Mar. 15 2011, 12:49 am

Quote: Vger23 @ Mar. 14 2011, 7:56 pm

>

>You don't need a theory.

>The Romulan / Federation Treaty of Algeron outlawed the Federation's use of cloaking technology. The only reason the USS Defiant had a cloak is because it was on loan from the Romaulan Star Empire.

>The entire TNG episode "The Pegasus" was based around this.

>


Exactly what I was going to refer to as well. They signed this Treaty to keep the peace basically.


Jolan Tru, may your day be filled with peace.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Mar. 15 2011, 5:13 am

Not only do you have the treaty, but the Federation prides itself on being an open society with no secrets (though we know this isn't true). Ships hiding behind a cloak doesn't fit this mold. Plus, you typically only cloak when wanting to hunt and starfleet doesn't hunt.

I would think a cloak would be useful when surveying near hostiles, too. But then sensors aren't very efficient when the cloak is on.

My question- Now that the Romulan government is gone, is the Treaty of Algeron valid?

OtakuJo

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Report this Mar. 15 2011, 6:15 am

I agree it was a very lame move on the part of the Federation to develop that treaty... To put themselves at such a profound tactical disadvantage for all that time.


But... Picard. Oh, Picard... How I do like thee, but you are so punctilious sometimes that it drives me insane! You know the Romulans wouldn't keep their side of the bargain if the positions had been reversed.


There is some suggestion of future federation use of cloaking technology though (Apart from the Defiant for which the cloaking device was of course Romulan in origin.) If you recall, the holo-ship from "Insurrection" could conceivably have been called "cloaked" ~~ although (and I haven't looked this just writing this on the fly, really) it might also have been Son'a technology.


*Non canon there's an interesting almost throwaway line in one of my favourite Star Trek novels which possibly links the Insurrection holo-ship to Section 31... but I digress lol.*


Possibly the coolest part of the "Pegasus" episode was to see the Enterprise decloak!

Matthias Russell

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Report this Mar. 15 2011, 6:27 am

I personally agree ships should have it for if and when they need it though only in rare cases. As seen in Insurrection, there are scientific uses for them in creating duck blinds. But sometimes, it is better to go without a useful tool. I suppose it is hard to judge without knowing the circumstances behind the Treaty of Algeron and I never read "serpents among the ruins".

BrotherofShran01

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Report this Mar. 15 2011, 6:33 pm

The Federation had the Suliban cloak, but did not allow the Enterprise under Captain Archer to use it much.

JaydenJaneway

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Report this Mar. 19 2011, 10:26 am

I think it was a mistake to have signed that treaty, Voyager would've benefitted greatly with cloaking technology in the Delta Quadrant.


Caalma

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Report this Mar. 19 2011, 10:33 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 15 2011, 5:13 am

>Not only do you have the treaty, but the Federation prides itself on being an open society with no secrets (though we know this isn't true). Ships hiding behind a cloak doesn't fit this mold. Plus, you typically only cloak when wanting to hunt and starfleet doesn't hunt. I would think a cloak would be useful when surveying near hostiles, too. But then sensors aren't very efficient when the cloak is on. My question- Now that the Romulan government is gone, is the Treaty of Algeron valid?


this was what i was going to refer to. a cloaking device is used by an agressor as a prelude to an act of war or by a captain that doesnt want to be discovered. probably because they are up to something bad.


as for the treaty? were all of the romulans destroyed or did some of them escape? I guess it would be hard to keep a government alive with so few remaining? and no planet to live on!


and what is to become of the vulcans?


"Do you think it's possible for two people to go back in time and correct a mistake that never should have happened?" ... "On this ship, anything is possible."

267198ed

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Report this Mar. 19 2011, 10:54 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Wouldn't a cloaking device have been useful against say the Borg or anyone else in battle. Maybe not when you are at peace but if your society is battling for existence you use any means available to win (aside from morally abhorent things like genocide etc).

>


The only thing about having a clocking device with the Borg around is that if they assimilated some Starfleet officers who even knew just the basics of how the cloak worked the Borg would instantly adapt and employ their own cloak. Which would be a very seriously bad thing.


@Matthias, yes thank you, exactly, enough said.


It’s no wonder the Romulans hate humans, every time they mess with their Empire they get screwed over. Sela, Shinzon, nothing good came from either of them. Just hearing those two names is enough to understand why they are so paranoid.


Jolan Tru, may your day be filled with peace.

tribblenator999

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Report this Mar. 19 2011, 11:18 am

Let's see Archer stole the sulabond cloak in enterprise. no one followed up on it.  the feds could make cloaking devices since they did steal the romulan cloak a advanced one in TOS. but they never bothered to follow up on it. Then sometime in the 24th century they signed the treaty. Dumb move. I mean fed ships aren't significantly stronger than romulan ships or klingon ships. The romulans have such an advantage as shown in nemesis and all their encounters. Who would sign a treaty compromising their own security. It's like the US signing treaties to get rid of all their nukes and disassembling the navy. O_O

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