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The Omega Glory

SpockNation

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POSTS: 65

Report this Mar. 13 2011, 8:44 pm

I found Kirk's speech near the end of The Omega Glory fascinating, mainly due to the emotions he exibited throughout it.  He spoke with such passion and pride over the Declaration of Independence that I wondered if it was logical for him to have such feelings.  His look of shock at the replications of certain pieces of Americanism, I can understand.  But I do not think he would have become so emotional over what would have been to him, a piece of history.  His passionate speech would have been made more logical if the Yangs had a replicate of a Federation society.


So, what do you think?  

toranaprem

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POSTS: 621

Report this Mar. 14 2011, 12:04 am

I actually think that entire scene is one of the most terrible, stupid, and ridiculous in all of Star Trek. The theory of parallel development was a bad enough, but this episode took it to a whole new level of awful, and Kirk's impassioned speech was preachy, lame, and anachronistic in the worst way.


Theodore Sturgeon once said in regard to Star Trek that, "Some of the episodes were a little bit on the hokey side. George Jessel used to wrap an American flag around himself and dance across the stage in order to get applause. If people didn't applaud him, they were going to applaud the flag. Once in a while, Gene was guility of that and I won't deny it."

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Mar. 14 2011, 5:00 am

I think it was a great speech. I appreciated his emphasis on "we the people" and that the words need the meaning put into them. I think it us very appropriate today where liberty and freedom are buzz words that have become so cliche nobody really understand what they mean. I'm not patriotic in the least and I found it to be moving because not only was he passionate, he was not showing any particular political bias.

However, I do feel they went a bit too far with the flag and Declaration being exact copies. Also, I wonder if a 23rd century guy will be so well versed in american democratic ideals. Would he have been able to give that speech if the holy document were the magna carta?

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Mar. 14 2011, 7:08 am

I thought it was great too. As much as I cringe at the "parallel development" trick that TOS used to employ on occasion...I never let the "science" aspects bother me about Star Trek. It's about good story and emotion...and this episode had those things.


 


 

exeter276

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POSTS: 190

Report this Mar. 14 2011, 7:33 am

The Omega Glory happens to be one of my favorite episodes. No complaints here!

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Mar. 14 2011, 8:18 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Its one of the scenes I do not like. From Kirks point of view there could have been so many other declarations that he may have read. Plus it hits to close to home.

>


 


I don't understand either of these comments.


What "other declarations could he have read?" I think he only could read the paper that was in front of him. He didn't choose what to read...he simply read the words on the Yang paper. I don't get your complaint.


How does it "hit too close to home" and if it does, how is that a bad thing?


Confusion


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

KelisThePoet

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POSTS: 636

Report this Mar. 14 2011, 11:42 pm

I don't think Kirk's speech at the end of this episode was realistic at all, and I don't care at all.  I love it.


For all the silly science and bizarre aliens, The Next Generation and the Star Trek series that followed it usually tried for a kind of realism--I mean, the stories in those series were meant to be plausible in some kind of alternate or future universe with consistent rules (the writers often failed to acheive plausibility, but I think that's what they were going for).  In my opinion, the original series was different.  Often it was meant to be overtly allegorical and/or satirical.  We got aliens that couldn't be looked at called Medusans, Elaan of Troyius, & c., & c.  The writers of the original series used science fiction to explore and re-imagine old stories and contemporary problems, and they did so with a degree of playful fictionality that I think gave the series its special charm.


In the case of "The Omega Glory," an American science fiction program gave its viewers (many of whom were American) an argument that contemporary America needed through the satiric device of another world with another America.  The episode allows Americans (and arguably others) to see themselves from a different perspective.  I'm glad that nothing as underwhelming as naive science-fictional realism got in the way of such a clever story.


Falor was a prosperous merchant who went on a journey to gain greater awareness: Through storms he crossed the Voroth Sea/ To reach the clouded shores of Raal/ Where old T’Para offered truth./ He traveled through the windswept hills/ And crossed the barren Fire Plains/ To find the silent monks of Kir./ Still unfulfilled, he journeyed home/ Told stories of the lessons learned/ And gained true wisdom by the giving. – Falor’s Journey, “Innocence”

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Mar. 15 2011, 5:27 am

Though it is odd Kirk knew the thoughts of the founding fathers so well, it is equally odd that Dr Who always ends up in England.

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Mar. 15 2011, 6:20 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>Though it is odd Kirk knew the thoughts of the founding fathers so well, it is equally odd that Dr Who always ends up in England.

About a year ago I got into a fight on this very board about this subject.

Yes I think its funny that American science fiction shows always end up somewhere in the USA and the action in Dr Who always centers around England or Wales. I don't mind all that much as I really don't want alien invaders on my doorstep.



Don't worry, you get yours in Road Warrior and Beyond Thunderdome.

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Mar. 15 2011, 9:38 am

Quote: KelisThePoet @ Mar. 14 2011, 11:42 pm

>

>I don't think Kirk's speech at the end of this episode was realistic at all, and I don't care at all.  I love it.

>For all the silly science and bizarre aliens, The Next Generation and the Star Trek series that followed it usually tried for a kind of realism--I mean, the stories in those series were meant to be plausible in some kind of alternate or future universe with consistent rules (the writers often failed to acheive plausibility, but I think that's what they were going for).  In my opinion, the original series was different.  Often it was meant to be overtly allegorical and/or satirical.  We got aliens that couldn't be looked at called Medusans, Elaan of Troyius, & c., & c.  The writers of the original series used science fiction to explore and re-imagine old stories and contemporary problems, and they did so with a degree of playful fictionality that I think gave the series its special charm.

>In the case of "The Omega Glory," an American science fiction program gave its viewers (many of whom were American) an argument that contemporary America needed through the satiric device of another world with another America.  The episode allows Americans (and arguably others) to see themselves from a different perspective.  I'm glad that nothing as underwhelming as naive science-fictional realism got in the way of such a clever story.

>


 


Nice post. True that...DOUBLE TRUE.


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Mar. 15 2011, 11:07 am

Google maps is the best!

Beershark

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POSTS: 2590

Report this Mar. 15 2011, 11:17 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 15 2011, 6:20 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Though it is odd Kirk knew the thoughts of the founding fathers so well, it is equally odd that Dr Who always ends up in England.

About a year ago I got into a fight on this very board about this subject.

Yes I think its funny that American science fiction shows always end up somewhere in the USA and the action in Dr Who always centers around England or Wales. I don't mind all that much as I really don't want alien invaders on my doorstep.

Don't worry, you get yours in Road Warrior and Beyond Thunderdome.


 


Just throwing my two cents in. Star Trek IS an american tv show and Dr. Who IS a british tv show, so why would it be odd that they cater to their target demographic? It's all good.


On Topic, Omega stands out as a prime example of how Mr. Roddenberry could make social and political statements behind the veil of SciFi, and in this case a VERY thin veil. No other tv series of it's day would have dared made such a bold and blantant statement about America's involvement in Vietnam.


CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

Beershark

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POSTS: 2590

Report this Mar. 15 2011, 4:57 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>I dont see how many of you can not see how roddenberry put it on a little too much in this episode. There have been a few references to america in TOS in a couple of episodes. But with this one we have Kirk reading the declaration of independence with a view of the american flag (if my memory serves me correctly). I think it is a bit too much. Its strange how in TOS we never had a hard time condemning the nazis and the romans.

>Star Trek was not about countries. It was about planets,races, and federations. When he stopped to look at the flag you would almost think he was american.

>


Was not Kirk born in Iowa? Wouldn't that make him an American?


CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Mar. 16 2011, 5:08 am

Exactly, that is why I understand Kirk knowing the declaration so well, he knew the history of his homeland. I agree it was ridiculous the document was word for word and the flag the same and their revolutionary war took place over a millennium ago. However, many things in trek are ridiculous. Like we can expect so many mirrored people in the mirror universe? After so many different circumstances, the odds of the same sperm-ovum combinations are astronomical! However, these are still good stories and provide excellent contrasts. And besides, with Q all things are possible.

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Mar. 16 2011, 7:07 am

Quote: Beershark @ Mar. 15 2011, 11:17 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 15 2011, 6:20 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>Though it is odd Kirk knew the thoughts of the founding fathers so well, it is equally odd that Dr Who always ends up in England.

About a year ago I got into a fight on this very board about this subject.

Yes I think its funny that American science fiction shows always end up somewhere in the USA and the action in Dr Who always centers around England or Wales. I don't mind all that much as I really don't want alien invaders on my doorstep.

Don't worry, you get yours in Road Warrior and Beyond Thunderdome.

 

Just throwing my two cents in. Star Trek IS an american tv show and Dr. Who IS a british tv show, so why would it be odd that they cater to their target demographic? It's all good.

On Topic, Omega stands out as a prime example of how Mr. Roddenberry could make social and political statements behind the veil of SciFi, and in this case a VERY thin veil. No other tv series of it's day would have dared made such a bold and blantant statement about America's involvement in Vietnam.


 


Agreed. It's unreasonable to expect that any TV show won't be geared in SOME WAY toward the common target audience. If you don't do that...you'll fail pretty quickly.


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

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