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Romulans

Porthos2010

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POSTS: 43

Report this Mar. 12 2011, 4:29 pm

There's a myriad of Trek books dealing with Romulans (Vulcan's Heart comes to mind); but they don't really go very far in fleshing out their culture, either: it only really shows that they have a bunch of paranoid politicians who are paranoid because all the others are paranoid too, and the soldiers are the exact same and every faction is scheming against every other one.


So, really, all we get to see in the books when it comes to Romulans is a very stereotypical militant culture. I mean, we could read any number of other sci-fi or fantasy books or see any number of movies and get to see the exact same sort of thing.


But on actual Trek cannon--


I think Enterprise really did have the chance to do some very interesting things with the Romulans--it had the chance to do some very interesting things with a lot of races. But it chose to go down the Andorian/Vulcan route; showing how they were pre-Federation and how they developed, etc.


It would have been good if they had have developed the Romulans there too, and they did do this a little bit in the fourth season, and they probably would have if Enterprise went for a few more seasons.

Ghostmojo

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POSTS: 1826

Report this Mar. 13 2011, 6:43 am

The trouble with this is (as I have said somewhere else) we didn't get to see them until TOS. How can you develop a visual story-telling process where the antagonists and protagonists never meet eyeball to eyeball?


I would love to see the Romulans further developed. Of all the Trek aliens they are my favourite. But how to do this? The opportunity was wasted in Nemesis because it was more about a cloned human oddball in Reman society. And even then we didn't learn a vast amount about the Remans.


I don't think any past, present, or future Star Trek show should have or should get too hung up on incorporating favourite aliens into the process. This happened with the Klingons in TNG and most of the bloody films!


The way to deal with this is to create a spin-off series in which the aliens are the main characters. The focus would be away from Star Fleet. If humans or other UFP figures appeared - they would be the opposition, and only in passing! Such a series could work. A mini-series perhaps not dealing with the Earth/Romulan War - but just a history of the Romulans after fleeing Vulcan right down to their settling Romulus (and Remus); and everything that happened thereafter - perhaps seen retrospectively through the eyes of an aging Praetor - a bit like the ancient Londo Molari looking back from his imperial Centaurian throne. Each episode could cover a certain historic period but have a central plot as well.


The problem would be what to call it. If you put the Star Trek prefix in it viewers might think it is about Star Fleet etc. If you don't they may not pay attention anyway...


I suppose I'd chance it and just go with something like: Gene Roddenberry's - Star Empire of the Romulans


to boldy go where no man has gone before

Treknoir

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POSTS: 1784

Report this Mar. 13 2011, 11:34 am

Quote: Ghostmojo @ Mar. 13 2011, 6:43 am

>

>The trouble with this is (as I have said somewhere else) we didn't get to see them until TOS. How can you develop a visual story-telling process where the antagonists and protagonists never meet eyeball to eyeball?

>I would love to see the Romulans further developed. Of all the Trek aliens they are my favourite. But how to do this? The opportunity was wasted in Nemesis because it was more about a cloned human oddball in Reman society. And even then we didn't learn a vast amount about the Remans.

>I don't think any past, present, or future Star Trek show should have or should get too hung up on incorporating favourite aliens into the process. This happened with the Klingons in TNG and most of the bloody films!

>The way to deal with this is to create a spin-off series in which the aliens are the main characters. The focus would be away from Star Fleet. If humans or other UFP figures appeared - they would be the opposition, and only in passing! Such a series could work. A mini-series perhaps not dealing with the Earth/Romulan War - but just a history of the Romulans after fleeing Vulcan right down to their settling Romulus (and Remus); and everything that happened thereafter - perhaps seen retrospectively through the eyes of an aging Praetor - a bit like the ancient Londo Molari looking back from his imperial Centaurian throne. Each episode could cover a certain historic period but have a central plot as well.

>The problem would be what to call it. If you put the Star Trek prefix in it viewers might think it is about Star Fleet etc. If you don't they may not pay attention anyway...

>I suppose I'd chance it and just go with something like: Gene Roddenberry's - Star Empire of the Romulans

>


I like your idea and have expressed a similar interest in non-SF/UFP centered stories on other threads. Not sure if a series would work because of the expense involved. I think TPTB shoud certainly look into allowing good writers to get down into the weeds with various alien species, their culture, how they fit into the galaxy (Klingons have been done to death), etc. SF and the UFP would be minor characters, if that. If a particular book series became a hit, then TPTB could probably try to move it to the big or little screen.


I think there is a wealth of material TPTB could be using to further the franchise instead of rehashing what's already been done.


JMO


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

KAHLESS THE UNFORGETTABLE

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Report this Mar. 13 2011, 10:30 pm

PA’TAKS!


GLORY TO THE KLINGON EMPIRE!

Treknoir

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Report this Mar. 14 2011, 9:20 am

Quote: KAHLESS THE UNFORGETTABLE @ Mar. 13 2011, 10:30 pm

>

class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;">PA’TAKS!

>


 


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

267198ed

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POSTS: 2871

Report this Mar. 15 2011, 1:22 am

I’ve liked them from the very beginning, and even more so with episodes such as Unification where we get a chance to see how the citizens feel, about the government/military.


Then there was The Defector and Face of the Enemy, which were also great because, again, we saw that Romulus was definitely not united, most of what the Federation sees is, but then when you examine them, they really are just like the UFP if the “other side”, being corrupt, devious, etc, etc all things the Romulan gov/military is known to be had taken power. It is truly grand to see the struggle of both civilians and officers to help make peace with the Federation, even risking their lives.


I liked the ridges more than what Abrams did to their faces in that same aspect. I think if they took the TNG ridges and made them less prominent they would have been much better. Another word about the aesthetic of Romulans, their funky square shoulder jackets, at first I love them, but seeing Romulans without that static shape, awful, you might as well have cut their ears off. But their short pants were a little strange, but then, that it also good because they needed to be somewhat strange, far too many alien races had clothing that looked 24th Earth, or at least 24th century UFP. Romulans really stuck out in this way.


I could go on and on, but I probably shouldn’t write an essay about my love for Romulans/Vulans, and even sort of Remans because no one really wants to hear all that, nor do I feel like writing that much, as I have already written enough for now.


Jolan Tru, may your day be filled with peace.

267198ed

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Report this Mar. 15 2011, 1:30 am

Oh, wait, I am not finished! They are also great because they really do believe in what they are doing, yes there are many corrupt Romulans in power, but they all started out with this strong morality that they base everything around, even the “corrupt” Romulans believe that what they are doing is right. Which is also why they need to unite with Vulcan, so they can find logic and realize their mistakes, etc.


But I don’t think they are simply Vulcans without logical, they clearly are different and separate, whilst they share many aspects I think that even if they found unification they would be distinctly different.


EDIT: For all who want to know everything there is to know without actually watching every single Romulan episode in Trek history http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Romulan Memory Alpha to the rescue! XD


Jolan Tru, may your day be filled with peace.

Treknoir

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Report this Mar. 15 2011, 8:01 am

Quote: 267198ed @ Mar. 15 2011, 1:30 am

>

>But I don’t think they are simply Vulcans without logical, they clearly are different and separate, whilst they share many aspects I think that even if they found unification they would be distinctly different.

>


We'll have to agree to disagree. At the core, both are extremely emotional and violent. Vulcans chose to repress, Romulans not so much. That is why they split apart.


Oh and I love to talk about Vulcans/Romulans. Maybe we need a V/R thread or something.


 


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

267198ed

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POSTS: 2871

Report this Mar. 15 2011, 4:17 pm

Quote: Treknoir @ Mar. 15 2011, 8:01 am

Quote: 267198ed @ Mar. 15 2011, 1:30 am

>

>

>But I don’t think they are simply Vulcans without logical, they clearly are different and separate, whilst they share many aspects I think that even if they found unification they would be distinctly different.

>

We'll have to agree to disagree. At the core, both are extremely emotional and violent. Vulcans chose to repress, Romulans not so much. That is why they split apart.

Oh and I love to talk about Vulcans/Romulans. Maybe we need a V/R thread or something.

 


Right, I agree, obiviously they are the same, the Vulcans who eventually became todays Romulans, but if todays Romulans found logic, they would not become Vulcan, just logical Romulans, similar but after being apart for so long they grew in different ways, ways that would still exist if they found logic.


I too would love that thread! If you make one, I’ll be there


Jolan Tru, may your day be filled with peace.

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Mar. 16 2011, 4:44 am

The Romulans help you to understand and sympathize with the rigid restraints Vulcans put upon themselves. They help us appreciate the goodness of Vulcans more by seeing what they could be.

267198ed

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Report this Mar. 16 2011, 6:17 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 16 2011, 4:44 am

>The Romulans help you to understand and sympathize with the rigid restraints Vulcans put upon themselves. They help us appreciate the goodness of Vulcans more by seeing what they could be.


Indeed, and I think that is something that goes both ways. Unification needs to happen, it is a win/win situation for all directly or indirectly involved.


Also, I find it a little specist (racist against species) that everyone was all mad about Vulcan being destroyed when Romulus was also destroyed, and probably with even less survivors. And don’t forget about Remus.


But then I think of ST 09 as a whole other timeline that can be easily explained away. So the destruction of all planets in 09 are not canon to our preferred timeline, just the other strange alternate timeline.


Jolan Tru


Jolan Tru, may your day be filled with peace.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Mar. 16 2011, 10:57 am

I don't believe Unification will ever happen. Some Romulans will make peace but as a society, they won't change their ways.

Treknoir

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Report this Mar. 16 2011, 2:35 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 16 2011, 10:57 am

>I don't believe Unification will ever happen. Some Romulans will make peace but as a society, they won't change their ways.


Theoretically, I could see it happening. Just not in a big, happy family way. It is clear from canon that some Romulans want change but are afraid of their government. AND there are already fringe Vulcans who show emotion. I imagine some mainstream Vulcans probably are tired of logic all the damn time and would like some balance.


Perhaps in the future, enough of the moderates will break apart from both groups and form a more "balanced" society. At least in the prime universe. In the AU, I could see future moderate Romulan and Vulcan survivors coming together if ONLY to keep their species going and to prevent inbreeding.


Of course, that would leave the hardcore extremist Romulans and Vulcans to do their own thing.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Matthias Russell

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Report this Mar. 17 2011, 6:29 am

In the Abramsverse, Romulus still exists and they no doubt would like to use the destruction of Vulcan as an opportunity to stamp out the Vulcans not bring them into the fold or make peace.

In the prime verse, I could see the destruction of Romulus affecting them like Praxis affected the Klingons.

Treknoir

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Report this Mar. 17 2011, 7:38 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Mar. 17 2011, 6:29 am

>In the Abramsverse, Romulus still exists and they no doubt would like to use the destruction of Vulcan as an opportunity to stamp out the Vulcans not bring them into the fold or make peace. In the prime verse, I could see the destruction of Romulus affecting them like Praxis affected the Klingons.


You're of the opinion that the Romulus star in the AU will NOT supernova in 120+ years? Someone posted that the lead up comics had Romulans getting blown to smithereens in the PU due to apathy and failure to act. Maybe they will get a clue in the AU and actually leave. My comment was based on the assumption they still get blown up eventually in AU.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

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