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30 Days

Matthias Russell

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Report this Feb. 17 2011, 7:43 pm

Were Paris' actions in or out of character?


 


Were his actions an act of terrorism?


 


Depending on your answer to the second question, was Janeway's punishment too little or not enough?

willowtree

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Report this Feb. 18 2011, 5:08 am

I think it was out of character for him to disobey orders. But as far as in how he stood up for that water planet, I don't know if THAT was out of character for him or not.


I don't think his actions were terroism,  he was trying to help the water planet


I have always thought that Janeway's punishment was too harsh. Either the demotion, OR the time in the brig would have been enough IMO. But both was too much. She wasn't that hard on Seven the many times she disobeyed orders, she wasn't that hard on Harry when he disobeyed orders, she wasn't that hard on Tuvok either.

parisandtorres

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Report this Feb. 18 2011, 7:50 am

I think Tom Paris is one of the best crew members on Voyager (other than Torres as you can see : )  I think he was honestly just tring to help.  Plus some people have done worse things than that and thay did not get demoted or put in the brig. 

willowtree

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Report this Feb. 18 2011, 9:05 am

i totally agree Janeway was uncharacteristically hard on him


 


I think maybe because she wasso happy to see him turn his life around, from being in prison to becoming a great officer. I think she might have taken his disobeying orders personally

Matthias Russell

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Report this Feb. 18 2011, 1:47 pm

I think Paris got off lucky.  Disobeying the captain, stealing a shuttle and threatening an ally.  He is lucky she didn't strip him of all rank.  If this were in Federation space and he had a commission, there would have been a court martial leading to his expulsion. 


 


What I did like is that Janeway allowed him to explain himself to her.  Didn't change the outcome, but she respected him enough to let him explain himself.  I do find it unusually harsh that he was only allowed 1 friendly visit for the entire month.  his girlfriend wasn't even allowed to visit.

JaydenJaneway

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Report this Feb. 18 2011, 3:16 pm

I think the punishment was fitting for the crime. he had no business doing what he did. it was not his place to interfere. 


janewayjunkie74656

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Report this Feb. 18 2011, 4:15 pm

I think Janeway might've been a LITTLE hard on him, just putting him back at ensign was hard enough, I don't know if he deserved the brig.


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Matthias Russell

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Report this Feb. 19 2011, 8:08 am

Booting him to ensign meant nothing.  How much did rank mean on the other side of the galaxy, plus once they got home, who's to say Starfleet would be willing to issue him a commission?  Demoting him was a superficial gesture.  The brig showed she meant business that such behavior would have drastic consequences.


 


Am I the only one who finds his behavior an act of extremism so averse to Starfleet ideals to consider it a permanent blemish?

willowtree

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Report this Feb. 20 2011, 9:41 am

she couldn't very well revoke his flight privelages. He was their best pilot, she needed him at the helm

lostshaker

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Report this Feb. 20 2011, 10:20 am

Paris' actions didn't appear out of character. There are a handful of episodes where he felt interfering would be for the better. As for the punishment, Janeway was more forgiving with others, like Tuvok in "Prime Factors". Both officers violated the Prime Directive and betrayed Janeway. Punishments shouldn't be the same, but adapted to the offender's individuality. So while I can justify 30 days, the demotion is superfluous. Paris had already been kicked out of the Academy. A demotion, by comparison, seemed more of a show for the crew.

Fflanders

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Report this Feb. 20 2011, 11:52 am

I think that Paris got off light. Janeway had limited resources and he knew it. He probably thought that she would eventually need him at the helm.


I'd also like to say that I really liked the graphics on this episode. The idea of suspending an ocean in space was very cool.

Spot_Data's_Cat

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Report this Feb. 21 2011, 1:07 am

His actions were not out of character, though I think they would have fitted more had this been an earlier episode, when Tom's Character had not developed as much as it had by season 5.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Feb. 21 2011, 6:58 am

Quote: willowtree @ Feb. 20 2011, 9:41 am

>

>she couldn't very well revoke his flight privelages. He was their best pilot, she needed him at the helm

>


 


Great abilities don't mean much if you can't follow orders and might be willing to ignore the captain in a crisis situation.  I agree with his goal, but that doesn't justify the action.  When starfleet returns in later centuries, Paris' actions will have left a bad taste in the aliens' mouth for humanity. 


 


As was illustrated when another ensign was at the helm while Paris was in the brig, other members were qualified for battle maneuvers.  You can train a pilot, but you can't teach obedience to a rebel.


willowtree

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Report this Feb. 21 2011, 7:47 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Feb. 21 2011, 6:58 am

Quote: willowtree @ Feb. 20 2011, 9:41 am

>

>

>she couldn't very well revoke his flight privelages. He was their best pilot, she needed him at the helm

>

 

Great abilities don't mean much if you can't follow orders and might be willing to ignore the captain in a crisis situation.  I agree with his goal, but that doesn't justify the action.  When starfleet returns in later centuries, Paris' actions will have left a bad taste in the aliens' mouth for humanity. 

 

As was illistrated when another ensign was at the helm while Paris was in the brig, other members were qualified for battle maneuvers.  You can train a pilot, but you can't teach obedience to a rebel.


I'd say when you're a lone ship stranded in the Delta Quadrent, great abilities mean a lot. Without the great abilitie of people like Tom and B'elanna for example Voyager would have been a hunk of debris years before they got home.


And tom wasn't the only person to ignor orders and go against the captain. Tuvok and B'Elanna were involved in stealing the ship's fiction database and trading it for technology, Seven beamed the wounded 8472 onto a Hirogen ship  despite orders not to, Harry started a sexual relationship with an alien species and then continued it depsite orders to stop, Chakotay stole a shuttle and abandoned Voyager to go off after Seska by himself. But none of them got anything as harsh as Tom did.


My question is not about tom's punishment, but the lack of punishment of others who were just as in the wrong as he was

Matthias Russell

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Report this Feb. 21 2011, 9:28 am

Willowtree, you have a valid point there. 


 


In Seven's case, she was newly liberated and wasn't a full crewman yet.  In Tom's case, maybe because he had a history as a trouble maker, she felt the need to be a little harder on him.


 


I agree though, she should have at least been consistant.

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