Star Trek

The UFP series would include a war with the Romulans but not be totally about that.

I like the Romulans too. They are my favourite of the baddies. It was a very clever idea to introduce an alien foe that at first appearance looked just like the Vulcans. That presented all sorts of opportunities for plotlines as Balance Of Terror demonstrated. All of a sudden, Spock was on trial in front of some of the crew.

But this is the first time any Federation crew had seen the Romulans. Until that point they were an unknown or uncertain entity. Spock and other Vulcans might have harboured longheld concerns that the Romulans might be known to them, but if so they kept it secret.

So if you were to make a series where the protagonists and antagonists never met - how would it work? Are we to assume that perhaps some of the pre-Kirk period UFP/predecessor COP ships did make contact, but were destroyed before they could pass on any info? Or perhaps the odd person did meet an occasional Romulan - but didn't live to tell the tale? Apart from those sort of instances which would have to have carefully tied-up storylines - the two sides would just never meet each other whilst being at war. And then finally the war is resolved by sub-space radio!

Also I should add that Vger23's points are well made and well taken. I agree completely. The business about taking an idea that works well - and just doing it well with incredible panache is what is needed. What is not needed is taking half-baked ideas and hoping they will float. Fans are very often the last people on earth who should decide what comes next. Although I guess there are two types of fans - those that can see this and those that can't. Most fans are just consumers. They like something but tend to view it subjectively as in 'I like Janeway so why can't we have a show about her growing up as a little girl and how great she was in the Space Girl Scouts?' and other such nonsense. That is why fan shows are often poor. You need to look at it objectively. Yes you need to be familar with the franchise/premise/plots/canon etc., but you also need to know what will work in front of a larger audience. Gene Roddenberry took a chance with Star Trek in the first place. There was no Trek audience - his show created it. TV studios shouldn't just be aiming at the existing audience - they should pretend it doesn't exist and try and create a new audience.

Returning to the Romulan War idea though, it's possible I suppose, but it would be a brave person who attempted to make such a series, and if they did a 6 part mini-series would be enough ...

A cold war between the Federation and Romulan Star Empire would be very exciting in A UFP TV series.

No, it wouldn't. It would be just like the Cold War between the Federation and the Dominion that lead up to the all-out war.

I think Romulan war fine one or two espides may season at must but series no.

I don't understand why you guys don't get it.

Why do you want a Star Trek war series so badly???

1. That's not what Star Trek is about. It worked well as a DS9 serialization, but, as I've said a million times, that's because it was UNIQUE at the time and because it was brought in during the middle of a series that had already established characters, so it was MUCH MORE INTERESTING to see them react and change as the war went on.

2. Why does television (or the entire science fiction medium) need ANOTHER frigging space wars show? Seriously, are you all so berift of creativity that this is all you can come up with??

And, Star Wars "Clone Wars" does well because it's called Star WARS. I doubt if they did a SW universe based series about running around the galaxy exploring, it would do well, because that's NOT Star Wars.

Juzuz...this kind of stuff is so frigging fanwanky and repetitive. Is this REALLY what you guys want. I mean...think about it real hard. Is it REALLY?

Quote:   Vger23 @ Mar 7 2011, 8:25am

Why do you want a Star Trek war series so badly??? 

 Is this REALLY what you guys want. I mean...think about it real hard. Is it REALLY? 

 [quote]

TO VGER:

YES...OBVIOUSLY THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.

When I was at a Star Trek convention,  Zachary Quinto was asked if he was coming back as Spock, and he said that's what was strange about signing contracts, that when he signed he had to agree to be Spock for anything they wanted to use him for....a next movie or a series (hold on now, he didn't say there would be a series, so please don't quote me on that, but he said they might use him if there was). Let me tell you, the fans were HAPPY to hear about that!

And I don't understand your remark (quote): THIS IS NOT WHAT STAR TREK IS ABOUT.   What the heck are you talking about?  There were FIVE STAR TREK SERIES.  

I'm not sure if you are a true Star Trek fan anyway....Maybe Star Wars? And maybe I shouldn't be arguing with you anyway....from your photo you look like you are a kid compared to me.

I'd be interested to hear what YOU want.    

Before you react in an angry manner like you have here, I'd strongly recommend you arm yourself with a full understanding of what is being discussed, which is clearly not what you did here.

I'm not arguing against a "new Star Trek series." If you had read anything I've posted on this thread, you'd uderstand that. In fact, what I'm arguing against is a "Star Trek WAR series." And, I've made several well-articulated arguments why I think that is a horrible and fanwanky direction to go in.

So, the next time you challenge whether or not someone out here is a "real fan" you may want to be sure of a few things:

1. You actually know what you're talking about. Challenging someone's fandom and then making insulting remarks about their age is really low class when you haven't even taken the time to educate yourself on what is being discussed.

2. You can respond in a manner that actually adresses the issue being discussed and not to what you THOUGHT you read based on a quick, angry glance.

3. You know who James T. Kirk is, since the picture you seem to think is of me (and is obviously a "Star Wars fan-kid compared to you") is actually of Kirk. I'm flattered...but I am not James Kirk last time I checked. My understanding is that he is actually a pretty important character in this franchise. I guess only "real fans" would know that though.

I apologize. I now understand.  You were only complaining about not wanting a Star Trek WARS series.  I panicked because I really would like a new series and didn't want someone to say they didn't.  Sorry for jumping.

By the way, I am a huge fan who goes to ST Conventions and I have been watching Star Trek for over 40 years (I was a little kid in 1966 when it premiered).  I've met Nimoy, Shatner, Stewart, Bakula,..everone.

To comment:

1. I was not angry at you.  I was just worried that maybe you were like this other guy who posts on here all the time who is always angry at everybody and I don't like when people fight and are mean.  I now realize that you were not doing this.  Sorry.

2. I DID NOT THINK YOUR AVATAR OF KIRK WAS YOU.  I've met William Shatner and have his autograph.  I know that is a scene of Kirk from The Paradise Syndrome, of which I've seen at least over 25 times     (I am Keerock!).  I was responding to the photo you attached of the guy sitting in a chair with the laptop on his lap and the tag on his pants that you attached to your posting.

Like I said, I apologize for misreading when you wrote Star Trek Wars.

I agree with you.  I would not like a ST Wars show, especially a Romulan Wars one.  You are right.

I will read more carefully next time.  

Forgive me, I am new on here and have not kept up with all of the threads, but I'm trying.  

And I was not challenging your fandom,  I was just wondering if you liked Star Wars better because you mention it a lot.  (Don't take offense to that either).

I am actually a really nice person (read my other posts).  I don't mind apologizing when I am found wrong.  Let's let bygones be bygones.  I am a fan for a long time.  We can have fun discussing a lot of things.

I still would like to know what you would like to see in a new series.   LL & P 

Don't think another thought about it. People get PASSIONATE about Trek...that's part of what makes is great. People tend to get a little too defensive out here sometimes though. You should read the garbage and really nasty stuff people were writing when the new movie premiered.

I hope you realize I'm not the guy in the picture I posted. I did that in jest to demonstrate that the idea of a "war" series just seems a little bit "fan fiction-ish" and nerdy to me.

As for what's I'd want...I'm humble enough to know that I’m a fan, NOT a writer (not even an amateur writer!), so I have no idea what would be a proverbial “good new series idea.”

I can tell you what elements I think it needs to have in order to be successful, though:

1.       It needs to maintain the same BASIC principles that the original 1960’s television show established: that mankind has overcome the difficulties of our inherent weaknesses and learned to work together as we head out and explore the galaxy as part of a more broad galactic community. The focus should be on that diversity and our ability to overcome (not white-wash, not “evolve beyond) our weaknesses.

2.       It should be about having adventures while exploring and pioneering the galaxy. I would prefer it to be a starship adventure. I think it should get back to the “pioneering the vast frontier” feel that TOS had, and not so much the “routine police patrol” feel that the later shows had. I think Enterprise rightfully strived to accomplish this, but missed the mark in execution more often than not.

3.       I don’t really care about what timeframe it is set in. But, I’d PREFER it to be a complete re-boot. I know many fans are blindly and single-mindedly tied into the “big picture” and enormous tapestry of history and continuity and really DEFINE their fandom by their knowledge and involvement in it…but all I really care about is good outer-space adventure stories with good characters and the “Star Trek” basics. I think this approach would not only facilitate my next suggestion (which may be the most important one), but it will also make the show more mass-marketable because newcomers don’t have to feel like they need to catch up on 500+ hours of continuity.

4.       Whatever it is, it needs to be DIFFERENT. It can’t be a remake of a remake like Voyager was. It needs to be as different from the other series as the new Battlestar Galactica was from THAT original series. That doesn’t mean it has to emulate BSG…but it needs to strive for that level of separation, while still maintaining the fundamental elements. The BSG reboot did this perfectly. The basic plot elements were the same as the classic show (Cylons, fleeing fleet, destroyed colonies, search for Earth, Vipers, etc), but the tone, themes, and feel were very different. Trek needs to strive for that kind of “newness.”

5.       It should be a unique, innovative, envelope-pushing show. People forget that the original Star Trek was a BOLD and very challenging series for its time. It dealt with issues that weren’t typically seen on television. It looked and felt different than anything else. It had a unique quality to it that challenged and excited audiences. I think the last show to come out and be that “innovative” was “24” on Fox. I think a new Trek series should be innovative.

6.       I think it should come out “later rather than sooner.” I don’t want to see anything rushed. CBS should gauge the health of the Trek franchise by seeing how the NEXT movie goes, and maybe wait 2-3 years after that before airing a new show.

Anyway, them’s my thoughts…

I agree with a lot of what you say.  I would REALLY be happy with a new rebooted Star Trek TV show  with totally different characters, different ship, but totally Star Trek in nature.  (just throw in a Vulcan or two, and I would be thrilled).

The new movie could have avoided problems if it had done this kind of total reboot.  I must admit that before the movie was released and I heard rumors that it was to be about Kirk and Spock meeting at Starfleet Academy I was really worried.  I know darn well that Kirk and Spock did not meet at the Acedemy.  And Kirk was actually an instructor at the academy for a while (very stern guy, supposedly).  

The movie skipped over this stuff in an "okay" manner, and it was fun, but it still disturbs me a little bit.  The best part of the movie overall for me was seeing Nimoy dressed as Spock again.  I saw him at a few conventions before the movie came out and did not think it would happen the way he was talking.

But I think a total reboot would have avoided all of these problems with trying to either stick with cannon or avoid cannon.  The Spock romance thing, the blowing up Vulcan thing, etc. etc.

Again, I would have gone for a re-booted, a totally new Trek story, still with an appearance by Nimoy. Possibly at a future time when Spock would still be alive (within that 250 year age of a Vulcan).

Likewise, I would love a new rebooted Star Trek TV show: different characters, different ships, new adventures, that can refer now and then to the other five shows' characters and ships that had existed, but not rely on them for the new story. (but not changing what already has been established as ST fact).

I like your ideas......  LL & P