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Wisconsin

Corwin8

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 8468

Report this Feb. 17 2011, 5:43 pm

Private companies have to freeze salary and cap wages all the time. They are forced to limit how much their employees make. 


 


Obama said we all have to have some skin in the game.


 


Unless it's government workers, who on average make 10 to 20 grand more for the same job than their counterparts in the private sector. 


But, hell, the government does not have to produce anything to operate, just raise taxes some more.  

Corwin8

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 8468

Report this Feb. 17 2011, 7:01 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Unless it's government workers, who on average make 10 to 20 grand more for the same job than their counterparts in the private sector.

>- you are looking at it wrong

>- it is not that government employees make more it i9s that private employees make less

>- maybe the government is the only one paying its workers what they are worth.

>- businessmen and corporations say they want to make profit and more profit all the time, that is what the 10-20 thousand dollars less is going. to literally pay people for doing no work.

>- i was forced into the public sector because private firms' insurance would not cover me; had nothing to do with my knowledge, skill, ability or anything else i could control.

>- i was the victim of not a death-panel but just a death-person, who denied me the same benefits other workers got, simply because of the way i was born and their desire for profit. 

>- real fair guys

>


As a person who works in the public sector, I now know why you are so much more into more and bigger government.


I won't blanket statement ALL public sector workers but I do know quite a few who can't pour piss out of a boot with instructions printed on the heel. 


All hail the government, as they pay better and know more to protect us. Move along Citizen, nothing to see here. 


 


At least you are working for your job security, right?


Let the bridges I burn light the way. You are special, just like everybody else. Calling an illegal alien an ‘undocumented immigrant’ is like calling a drug dealer an ‘unlicensed pharmacist’

caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 6:38 am

"I'm not missing anything. The state is 3 BILLION in the hole and this acually prevents massive lay-offs."


Bull:


http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html


"In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state’s budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million.


To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist.


The Fiscal Bureau memo -- which readers can access at http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf -- makes it clear that Walker did not inherit a budget that required a repair bill.


The facts are not debatable.


Because of the painful choices made by the previous Legislature, Wisconsin is in better shape fiscally than most states.


Wisconsin has lower unemployment than most states.


Wisconsin has better prospects for maintaining great schools, great public services and a great quality of life than most states, even in turbulent economic times.


Unfortunately, Walker has a political agenda that relies on the fantasy that Wisconsin is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.


Walker is not interested in balanced budgets, efficient government or meaningful job creation.


Walker is interested in gaming the system to benefit his political allies and campaign contributors.


To achieve that end, he has proposed a $137 million budget “repair” bill that he intends to use as a vehicle to:


1. Undermine the long-established collective bargaining rights of public employee unions, which have for 80 years been the strongest advocates for programs that serve the great mass of Wisconsinites, as opposed to wealthy elites and corporate special interests. As Racine’s Democratic state Rep. Cory Mason says, the governor’s bill is designed not with the purpose of getting the state’s finances in order but as “an assault on Wisconsin’s working families and political payback against unions who didn’t support Gov. Walker.”


2. Pay for schemes that redirect state tax dollars to wealthy individuals and corporate interests that have been sources of campaign funding for Walker’s fellow Republicans and special-interest campaigns on their behalf. As Madison’s Democratic state Rep. Brett Hulsey notes, the governor and legislators aligned with him have over the past month given away special-interest favors to every lobby group that came asking, creating zero jobs in the process “but increasing the deficit by more than $100 million.”


Actually, Hulsey’s being conservative in his estimate of how much money Walker and his allies have misappropriated for political purposes.


One Wisconsin Now, the progressive watchdog group that has provided the closest monitoring of Walker’s budgetary gamesmanship, explains:


“Since his inauguration in early January, Walker has approved $140 million in new special-interest spending that includes:


“• $25 million for an economic development fund for job creation that still has $73 million due to a lack of job creation. Walker is creating a $25 million hole which will not create or retain jobs.


“• $48 million for private health savings accounts, which primarily benefit the wealthy. A study from the federal Governmental Accountability Office showed the average adjusted gross income of HSA participants was $139,000 and nearly half of HSA participants reported withdrawing nothing from their HSA, evidence that it is serving as a tax shelter for wealthy participants.


“• $67 million for a tax shift plan, so ill-conceived that at best the benefit provided to ‘job creators’ would be less than a dollar a day per new job, and may be as little as 30 cents a day.”


State Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Madison, sums up this scheming accurately when he says: “In one fell swoop, Gov. Walker is trying to institute a sweeping radical and dangerous notion that will return Wisconsin to the days when land barons and railroad tycoons controlled the political elites in Madison.”


The bottom line is evident to anyone who cares to pay attention not to the spin but to the budget figures: Walker is manufacturing a fiscal “crisis” in order to achieve political goals.


Walker is not addressing a fiscal crisis.


He is not serving Wisconsin.


He is serving his own interest and those of the lobbyists who represent his campaign contributors."


 


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

Corwin8

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 8468

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 11:25 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>and what do you do corwin that is so great and makes you smarter than the rest of us americans?

>


 


What I do is not so important as it's not a public sector job. 


I NEVER called YOU stupid, but here where I live, in the northeast, public sector employees are mostly patronage hires or too clueless to hold down the same job where performance is mesured.  


I don't give a rat's ass if you did work in the private sector, or public, or for yourself. You support a system that rewards mediocrity and the services we pay for as taxpayers go largly unfinished.


I'm not any better or smarter than you or anyone here. What makes you think I belive anyone you mentioned is better than or smarter than anyone else? 


As for Obamacare, start another thread, as the fail of that boondoggle is a whole other issue.  


Don't worry Rusty, the government will save you from those evil douchbags. 


Let the bridges I burn light the way. You are special, just like everybody else. Calling an illegal alien an ‘undocumented immigrant’ is like calling a drug dealer an ‘unlicensed pharmacist’

Roboto

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3883

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 11:29 am

And it turns out they were hiding in Illinois at "Best Western" in Rockford, go figure... here, arguably the most corrupt state in the US.  Aye-yeye-yeye...


Lieutenant_Jedi

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1728

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 1:10 pm

Quote: caltrek2 @ Feb. 18 2011, 6:38 am

>

>"I'm not missing anything. The state is 3 BILLION in the hole and this acually prevents massive lay-offs."

>Bull:

>http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html

>"In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state’s budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million.

>To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist.

>The Fiscal Bureau memo -- which readers can access at http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf -- makes it clear that Walker did not inherit a budget that required a repair bill.

>The facts are not debatable.

>Because of the painful choices made by the previous Legislature, Wisconsin is in better shape fiscally than most states.

>Wisconsin has lower unemployment than most states.

>Wisconsin has better prospects for maintaining great schools, great public services and a great quality of life than most states, even in turbulent economic times.

>Unfortunately, Walker has a political agenda that relies on the fantasy that Wisconsin is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

>Walker is not interested in balanced budgets, efficient government or meaningful job creation.

>Walker is interested in gaming the system to benefit his political allies and campaign contributors.

>To achieve that end, he has proposed a $137 million budget “repair” bill that he intends to use as a vehicle to:

>1. Undermine the long-established collective bargaining rights of public employee unions, which have for 80 years been the strongest advocates for programs that serve the great mass of Wisconsinites, as opposed to wealthy elites and corporate special interests. As Racine’s Democratic state Rep. Cory Mason says, the governor’s bill is designed not with the purpose of getting the state’s finances in order but as “an assault on Wisconsin’s working families and political payback against unions who didn’t support Gov. Walker.”

>2. Pay for schemes that redirect state tax dollars to wealthy individuals and corporate interests that have been sources of campaign funding for Walker’s fellow Republicans and special-interest campaigns on their behalf. As Madison’s Democratic state Rep. Brett Hulsey notes, the governor and legislators aligned with him have over the past month given away special-interest favors to every lobby group that came asking, creating zero jobs in the process “but increasing the deficit by more than $100 million.”

>Actually, Hulsey’s being conservative in his estimate of how much money Walker and his allies have misappropriated for political purposes.

>One Wisconsin Now, the progressive watchdog group that has provided the closest monitoring of Walker’s budgetary gamesmanship, explains:

>“Since his inauguration in early January, Walker has approved $140 million in new special-interest spending that includes:

>“• $25 million for an economic development fund for job creation that still has $73 million due to a lack of job creation. Walker is creating a $25 million hole which will not create or retain jobs.

>“• $48 million for private health savings accounts, which primarily benefit the wealthy. A study from the federal Governmental Accountability Office showed the average adjusted gross income of HSA participants was $139,000 and nearly half of HSA participants reported withdrawing nothing from their HSA, evidence that it is serving as a tax shelter for wealthy participants.

>“• $67 million for a tax shift plan, so ill-conceived that at best the benefit provided to ‘job creators’ would be less than a dollar a day per new job, and may be as little as 30 cents a day.”

>State Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Madison, sums up this scheming accurately when he says: “In one fell swoop, Gov. Walker is trying to institute a sweeping radical and dangerous notion that will return Wisconsin to the days when land barons and railroad tycoons controlled the political elites in Madison.”

>The bottom line is evident to anyone who cares to pay attention not to the spin but to the budget figures: Walker is manufacturing a fiscal “crisis” in order to achieve political goals.

>Walker is not addressing a fiscal crisis.

>He is not serving Wisconsin.

>He is serving his own interest and those of the lobbyists who represent his campaign contributors."

>


Very Interesting. Amazing how facts shed a whole new light on the situation.


Doesn't the Republican party stand for less governmental spending, and advocates "self reliance"? How does spending 100+ million dollars support such a stand? And why is the story not being reported on in depth, rather than focus on the Dem lawmakers why doesnt the news report the facts of what led to the issue? 


"Can you detect midi - chlorians with a tricorder?"

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46314

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 2:14 pm

Don't you just love the tactics of the socialists?  If they can't push their agenda through via the vote, they hold the process hostage.


Vicsage

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 465

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 2:39 pm

I think that, in addition to what the governor wants, they should also cut the governor's salary 50%, the legislators salaries 40%, cut their health care back, cut their pensions, and pass a law saying no pay raises for the governor or legislators for the next 10 years. Never happen.

No response must mean you all agree.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46314

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 2:53 pm

And don't ya just love the progressive "logic" ?  It's okay for people to get paid more if you're a government worker, but if you do it via the private sector, you're "greedy."

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46314

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 3:04 pm

[quote]


I haven't looked into it too much, but I'm sure those tax breaks wee given to help the economy.


 


You know, like all those tax breaks Obama gave to the Unions?


 


3 billions is the debt in a couple years, 150 million is the deficit this year.


[/quote]


Yea - unions are "special" - they don't have to follow the rules - hence the exemptions - and then they push for the governments to destroy themselves and then refuse to take any responsibility.


Many of these people don't understand the difference between debt & deficit (let alone unfunded liabilities.)

caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 3:50 pm

Feb. 18 2011, 2:14 pm



"Don't you just love the tactics of the socialists?  If they can't push their agenda through via the vote, they hold the process hostage."


As if conservatives never put anonymous holds on judicial nominations and never used the filibuster.


 


Lieutenant_Jedi

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1728

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 3:56 pm

Yanks- 3 billion is a projection, which can be easily changed by the action or inaction of the State house and Senate. Wisconsin is in far better shape than California.


Breaking the power of the State unions is an untested idea. Conservative commentators love to demonize unions, but never really talk about why they are such a bad thing, other than they "cost too much". Isn't it possible for states to pay a decent wage to their workers, and be sensible about their spending and taxation?  Do unions have to be broken and eliminated for everyone to be happy?


 


And please don't assume something "when you have not looked into it"


BamBam - labelling everyone in the Wisconsin Democratic party "socialist" is ridiculous. The Republican Party was willing to shut down the Federal government for the "fiscal responsibility" that they felt was important. Political parties will take drastic action if the stakes are high enough, and whether or not you agree with the action often depends on whether you agree with the politics. 


 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46314

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 3:59 pm

Caltrek,


 Not sure how someone can put an "anonymous" hold on judicial nominations, but if someone does, that's just as bad.



I don't like filibusters either, but that's different than this tactic - they have to show up to do it - not hide away.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46314

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 4:01 pm

Jedi - the ends don't justify the means - regardless of whether I agree on the politics or not.

caltrek2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2654

Report this Feb. 18 2011, 4:30 pm

"Caltrek,


 Not sure how someone can put an 'anonymous' hold on judicial nominations, but if someone does, that's just as bad."


Perhaps this article will help you to understand:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/24/AR2010092406035.html


"I don't like filibusters either, but that's different than this tactic - they have to show up to do it - not hide away."


They are not "hiding away", they have simply left the state so that a quorum cannot be reached.  They have to leave the state or dictator Walker...err...I mean Governor Walker might send officers of the law to drag them into attendance.


I thought libertarians supported freedom to travel and that sort of thing?


As Americans, we sometimes suffer from too much pluribus and not enough unum. - Arthur Schelsinger, Jr.

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