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Rick Berman Interview on STARTREK.COM

rocketscientist

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POSTS: 10054

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 7:55 am

I didn't see a thread on the new, comprehensive, Rick Berman interview on STARTREK.com, so I thought I'd start a thread here on it.  It is divided into three parts, on how he got the job on TNG, on the other shows, and on the films.  Factually, there wasn't anything here that I hadn't heard of before from other franchise luminaries, including Leonard Nimoy and Ron Moore, but there is a real sense that Mr. Berman wanted to set the record straight or give his side of the story on some the more controversial elements of his work, i.e VOY, ENT, GEN, etc.


Anyway, here are some pieces of it and some of my comments.  I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts on it.


WRT DS9:


"One of the big problems that Michael and the writing staff (on TNG) had was Gene that believed that in the 24th century there wouldn’t be any conflict between the major characters. Mankind had reached a point where the kind of human conflict that exists today had subsided, and the writers all believed very strongly, in fact, that drama is based on conflict, and they were very frustrated by that. And they were frustrated very often by notes they got from Gene about how he didn’t want conflict between anyone in Starfleet, primarily the main cast of the show. So, what Michael and I felt was that if we placed the show on a Bajoran space station we would have characters like Odo and Quark and Kira, who were regular characters, who were not only not human, but they were also not Federation, and thus conflict could exist among the series regulars."


Here, Berman is referring to what the TNG writers called "Gene's edict."  It was something that was instituted in TNG and not part of the original "Star Trek."  As Ron Moore said,


"Moore says that NEXT GEN was governed by what has come to be known as "Gene's edict," something he thinks was alien even to the original series. "Making the show ultimately about them was a very key and important decision," he says in reference to the efforts to write more character-centered stories beginning in year three. "But we were still operating, for quite awhile, under 'These people have no flaws.'... I don't know how Gene got on that particular hobbyhorse, because Gene was a writer from way back and he knows better. I think on some level, the franchise -- in the interim years between the original series and the return of Next Generation to television -- all the fan adulation and sort of pop cultural phenomena... people started calling Gene a utopian and that he was a "visionary of the future," and that he "saw mankind as IT REALLY SHOULD BE." And on some level, Gene started to believe that." After Roddenberry's death, Piller felt strongly about honoring his vision for the show, even if it put clamps on the writing staff. Moore says it was difficult because his familiarity with the original STAR TREK didn't mesh with Roddenberry's TNG philosophy. "That drove me particularly crazy, as a fan of the original series, because I kept saying, 'Well, wait a minute. The original series didn't work like this! I mean, the original series people were not perfect. My god -- Spock and McCoy were at each other's throats for big chunks of time, and sometimes McCoy thought Kirk was an idiot. They were flawed people. Kirk had quite an ego and arrogance to him, and sometime it cuts him short.' The problem is, you couldn't do a show like 'Errand of Mercy' on Next Gen -- where Kirk says, 'We're at war, and I'm a soldier, not a diplomat.' And at the end of the piece, he kind of goes, 'Wow... Look what I was doing. I was so focused on fighting my enemy, the Klingons, and then these aliens had to sort of show me a thing or two.' And he learns a lesson. It's a great, classic episode..."


At a writing seminar I attended during DS9's run, Michael Pillar addressed "Gene's Edict" as well.  He knew many of the writer's hated it, but he and Berman felt it was important to adhere to GR's vision of 24th century humanity.  Ira Steven Beher, Ron Moore, and the other DS9 writers felt otherwise.  Eventually, they did bring back personal conflict and real humanity in DS9:


Speaking in the new issue of the UK's Star Trek Monthly, former STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE executive producer Ira Steven Behr says the franchise's third series made its mark with imperfect, more realistic characters.
"We brought frailty back. People aren't always sitting around talking about how to solve problems. People are the problem," he says in the mag (excerpts available at TrekToday). I think we tried to make the characters grow and become more multi-dimensional... It's nice to see we're going to survive the 20th century, and this is still the optimistic Gene Roddenberry universe, but there are relatable human frailties within that perfect world."


For Behr, Colm Meaney's 'Miles O'Brien' was a character more relatable to today than any previous TREK character.


"He was the only guy in all of Star Trek that I could relate to. He's intelligent, but not that intelligent, he's a little bigoted, he's a little sexist, he's a little everything and I think that was a nice character to have," he recalls.


The darker, edgier and less perfect universe of DS9 was the chief reason Behr, who had left TNG after the third season, hopped back into the fold.


"I had lunch with Michael and Rick Berman, and they said, 'There will be more humour, more conflict, more characters to play with, less tech. People will be more neurotic and unhappy and dark,' and I said, 'Okay, I think I can do that!'"


That said, I'd say in its later seasons that even TNG loosened up a bit wrt its perfect characters, i.e. The Pegasu, the First Duty, etc. 


 

rocketscientist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10054

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 8:28 am



More on Berman wrt DS9:


"When Nog (Aron Eisenberg) was going to have both his legs blown off, I found that a little bit too violent. There was a lot of disagreement in that and we ended up having the bizarre compromise of having him lose one leg and then getting a prosthetic leg as opposed to losing two legs, which, in retrospect is very funny."


Ron Moore on this:


Season seven's "The Seige of AR-558" and "It's Only a Paper Moon" dealt a major blow to Aron Eisenbery's 'Nog', a semi-regular by that time. Moore says Berman argued with DS9 show runner Ira Steven Behr over its execution.

"I remember one particularly insane argument that Ira and Rick had when Nog was injured and ended up losing a leg, there was this ridiculous extended argument that I was in a room while Ira was on the phone," Moore recalls. "We had written the draft where he had lost both his legs, and Rick was just appalled. "We can't lose the character's legs!" And we were like, "No, we've got to. We've got to have somebody who's injured in this war who's not just a guest star in the background." It was a very important point. And the argument got to the point where they were arguing about, "Well, does it have to be one leg or two? And is it above the knee or below the knee?" It was just, like, they were negotiating over where Nog was to lose his leg. It was just absurd."




Yeah, it was absurd. 



Berman on the Dominion War:



 



"The whole idea of the Dominion Wars, the idea that Ira wanted an arc that was going to last a season or perhaps longer, he and I had a lot of disagreement about that. And that was all based purely on the fact that Gene had been very specific to me about not wanting Star Trek to be a show about intergalactic wars, interspecies wars. He didn’t want it to be about humans fighting wars against other species.I felt that the whole arc of these wars was something that could get done in half-dozen episodes. Ira felt differently and he pushed it, and it went longer than I’d hoped it’d go, but it wasn’t like a situation of, “Wow, Ira is in his ninth episode and Rick thought he was only going to do four.” I mean, I read every story. I read every script. I discussed every story and script with Ira and whoever the writers were. I was aware of it. I was not necessarily happy that it went as long as it did. But these are the kinds of disagreements that people involved with a television show have."




Ron Moore:


And then as the war went on, Rick would weigh in periodically about how heroic the characters are and "Why does this one have to be so depressing" and "This one's too violent...." And we're like, "It's a f***in' war! What do you mean it's too violent?"


And wrt Berman's input:


"They were just always conservative. You were always pulling back from something. You were never given a note saying, "Go farther. Go wilder. This needs to be more shocking." It was always "Pull it back. Be safer."




And that's why VOY and ENT, which Berman and Braga had more control over, aren't as popular as "Star Trek," TNG, and DS9.  On the one hand, as is apparent in the interview, Mr. Berman knew that each show had to be different.  On the other, he was clearly afraid of straying too far from the TNG form and rules that he got from GR.  he was afraid of taking risks, and taking risks, as David Gerrold pointed out recently in an interview on STARTREK.com, is something "Star Trek" often did.  It was also something that Harve Bennett, Nicholas Meyer, and Leonard Nimoy weren't afraid to do with the TOS films.  And it was something Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzmann weren't afraid to do when they recast the iconic "Star Trek" roles and destroyed Vulcan. 


To keep the franchise vital, more creative risks needed to be taken.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

Treknoir

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1784

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 9:34 am

Ah, Gene's edict. I wonder what drove him to that position?

It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

TyrThunor

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POSTS: 75

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 9:52 am

What a joke, lolz after reading this I feeling like going back to hating star trek.

Characters without conflict lolz, but it's okay as long as their foreign to the federation. What a bizzare way to look at things. God, Gene really had a massiah complex.

Nog loosing his leg, and his rehab is what made DS9 too good.

I'm really sick of this idea that gene rodenberry is star trek. The only series he really made, he contradicted when he said their shouldn't be interpersonal conflict.

Don't get me wrong it's a nobel goal, and if your gonna pay for the series out of your own pocket sure go with it.

Treknoir

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1784

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 10:10 am

Quote: TyrThunor @ Feb. 11 2011, 9:52 am

What a joke, lolz after reading this I feeling like going back to hating star trek. Characters without conflict lolz, but it's okay as long as their foreign to the federation. What a bizzare way to look at things. God, Gene really had a massiah complex. Nog loosing his leg, and his rehab is what made DS9 too good. I'm really sick of this idea that gene rodenberry is star trek. The only series he really made, he contradicted when he said their shouldn't be interpersonal conflict. Don't get me wrong it's a nobel goal, and if your gonna pay for the series out of your own pocket sure go with it.


No, don't hate ST! I agree Gene's edict was/is a RIDICULOUS concept.

It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Trekwolf164

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 32043

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 10:25 am

Quote: rocketscientist @ Feb. 11 2011, 7:55 am

I didn't see a thread on the new, comprehensive, Rick Berman interview on STARTREK.com, so I thought I'd start a thread here on it.  It is divided into three parts, on how he got the job on TNG, on the other shows, and on the films.  Factually, there wasn't anything here that I hadn't heard of before from other franchise luminaries, including Leonard Nimoy and Ron Moore, but there is a real sense that Mr. Berman wanted to set the record straight or give his side of the story on some the more controversial elements of his work, i.e VOY, ENT, GEN, etc.

Anyway, here are some pieces of it and some of my comments.  I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts on it.

WRT DS9:

"One of the big problems that Michael and the writing staff (on TNG) had was Gene that believed that in the 24th century there wouldn’t be any conflict between the major characters. Mankind had reached a point where the kind of human conflict that exists today had subsided, and the writers all believed very strongly, in fact, that drama is based on conflict, and they were very frustrated by that. And they were frustrated very often by notes they got from Gene about how he didn’t want conflict between anyone in Starfleet, primarily the main cast of the show. So, what Michael and I felt was that if we placed the show on a Bajoran space station we would have characters like Odo and Quark and Kira, who were regular characters, who were not only not human, but they were also not Federation, and thus conflict could exist among the series regulars."

Here, Berman is referring to what the TNG writers called "Gene's edict."  It was something that was instituted in TNG and not part of the original "Star Trek."  As Ron Moore said,

"Moore says that NEXT GEN was governed by what has come to be known as "Gene's edict," something he thinks was alien even to the original series. "Making the show ultimately about them was a very key and important decision," he says in reference to the efforts to write more character-centered stories beginning in year three. "But we were still operating, for quite awhile, under 'These people have no flaws.'... I don't know how Gene got on that particular hobbyhorse, because Gene was a writer from way back and he knows better. I think on some level, the franchise -- in the interim years between the original series and the return of Next Generation to television -- all the fan adulation and sort of pop cultural phenomena... people started calling Gene a utopian and that he was a "visionary of the future," and that he "saw mankind as IT REALLY SHOULD BE." And on some level, Gene started to believe that." After Roddenberry's death, Piller felt strongly about honoring his vision for the show, even if it put clamps on the writing staff. Moore says it was difficult because his familiarity with the original STAR TREK didn't mesh with Roddenberry's TNG philosophy. "That drove me particularly crazy, as a fan of the original series, because I kept saying, 'Well, wait a minute. The original series didn't work like this! I mean, the original series people were not perfect. My god -- Spock and McCoy were at each other's throats for big chunks of time, and sometimes McCoy thought Kirk was an idiot. They were flawed people. Kirk had quite an ego and arrogance to him, and sometime it cuts him short.' The problem is, you couldn't do a show like 'Errand of Mercy' on Next Gen -- where Kirk says, 'We're at war, and I'm a soldier, not a diplomat.' And at the end of the piece, he kind of goes, 'Wow... Look what I was doing. I was so focused on fighting my enemy, the Klingons, and then these aliens had to sort of show me a thing or two.' And he learns a lesson. It's a great, classic episode..."

At a writing seminar I attended during DS9's run, Michael Pillar addressed "Gene's Edict" as well.  He knew many of the writer's hated it, but he and Berman felt it was important to adhere to GR's vision of 24th century humanity.  Ira Steven Beher, Ron Moore, and the other DS9 writers felt otherwise.  Eventually, they did bring back personal conflict and real humanity in DS9:

Speaking in the new issue of the UK's Star Trek Monthly, former STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE executive producer Ira Steven Behr says the franchise's third series made its mark with imperfect, more realistic characters.
"We brought frailty back. People aren't always sitting around talking about how to solve problems. People are the problem," he says in the mag (excerpts available at TrekToday). I think we tried to make the characters grow and become more multi-dimensional... It's nice to see we're going to survive the 20th century, and this is still the optimistic Gene Roddenberry universe, but there are relatable human frailties within that perfect world."

For Behr, Colm Meaney's 'Miles O'Brien' was a character more relatable to today than any previous TREK character.

"He was the only guy in all of Star Trek that I could relate to. He's intelligent, but not that intelligent, he's a little bigoted, he's a little sexist, he's a little everything and I think that was a nice character to have," he recalls.

The darker, edgier and less perfect universe of DS9 was the chief reason Behr, who had left TNG after the third season, hopped back into the fold.

"I had lunch with Michael and Rick Berman, and they said, 'There will be more humour, more conflict, more characters to play with, less tech. People will be more neurotic and unhappy and dark,' and I said, 'Okay, I think I can do that!'"

That said, I'd say in its later seasons that even TNG loosened up a bit wrt its perfect characters, i.e. The Pegasu, the First Duty, etc. 

 

O'Brian was one of the reasons I like DS 9 Pale Moonlight not so much

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcdZla4gKk0

TyrThunor

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 75

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 11:09 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Feb. 11 2011, 10:25 am

Quote: rocketscientist @ Feb. 11 2011, 7:55 am

I didn't see a thread on the new, comprehensive, Rick Berman interview on STARTREK.com, so I thought I'd start a thread here on it.  It is divided into three parts, on how he got the job on TNG, on the other shows, and on the films.  Factually, there wasn't anything here that I hadn't heard of before from other franchise luminaries, including Leonard Nimoy and Ron Moore, but there is a real sense that Mr. Berman wanted to set the record straight or give his side of the story on some the more controversial elements of his work, i.e VOY, ENT, GEN, etc.

Anyway, here are some pieces of it and some of my comments.  I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts on it.

WRT DS9:

"One of the big problems that Michael and the writing staff (on TNG) had was Gene that believed that in the 24th century there wouldn’t be any conflict between the major characters. Mankind had reached a point where the kind of human conflict that exists today had subsided, and the writers all believed very strongly, in fact, that drama is based on conflict, and they were very frustrated by that. And they were frustrated very often by notes they got from Gene about how he didn’t want conflict between anyone in Starfleet, primarily the main cast of the show. So, what Michael and I felt was that if we placed the show on a Bajoran space station we would have characters like Odo and Quark and Kira, who were regular characters, who were not only not human, but they were also not Federation, and thus conflict could exist among the series regulars."

Here, Berman is referring to what the TNG writers called "Gene's edict."  It was something that was instituted in TNG and not part of the original "Star Trek."  As Ron Moore said,

"Moore says that NEXT GEN was governed by what has come to be known as "Gene's edict," something he thinks was alien even to the original series. "Making the show ultimately about them was a very key and important decision," he says in reference to the efforts to write more character-centered stories beginning in year three. "But we were still operating, for quite awhile, under 'These people have no flaws.'... I don't know how Gene got on that particular hobbyhorse, because Gene was a writer from way back and he knows better. I think on some level, the franchise -- in the interim years between the original series and the return of Next Generation to television -- all the fan adulation and sort of pop cultural phenomena... people started calling Gene a utopian and that he was a "visionary of the future," and that he "saw mankind as IT REALLY SHOULD BE." And on some level, Gene started to believe that." After Roddenberry's death, Piller felt strongly about honoring his vision for the show, even if it put clamps on the writing staff. Moore says it was difficult because his familiarity with the original STAR TREK didn't mesh with Roddenberry's TNG philosophy. "That drove me particularly crazy, as a fan of the original series, because I kept saying, 'Well, wait a minute. The original series didn't work like this! I mean, the original series people were not perfect. My god -- Spock and McCoy were at each other's throats for big chunks of time, and sometimes McCoy thought Kirk was an idiot. They were flawed people. Kirk had quite an ego and arrogance to him, and sometime it cuts him short.' The problem is, you couldn't do a show like 'Errand of Mercy' on Next Gen -- where Kirk says, 'We're at war, and I'm a soldier, not a diplomat.' And at the end of the piece, he kind of goes, 'Wow... Look what I was doing. I was so focused on fighting my enemy, the Klingons, and then these aliens had to sort of show me a thing or two.' And he learns a lesson. It's a great, classic episode..."

At a writing seminar I attended during DS9's run, Michael Pillar addressed "Gene's Edict" as well.  He knew many of the writer's hated it, but he and Berman felt it was important to adhere to GR's vision of 24th century humanity.  Ira Steven Beher, Ron Moore, and the other DS9 writers felt otherwise.  Eventually, they did bring back personal conflict and real humanity in DS9:

Speaking in the new issue of the UK's Star Trek Monthly, former STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE executive producer Ira Steven Behr says the franchise's third series made its mark with imperfect, more realistic characters.
"We brought frailty back. People aren't always sitting around talking about how to solve problems. People are the problem," he says in the mag (excerpts available at TrekToday). I think we tried to make the characters grow and become more multi-dimensional... It's nice to see we're going to survive the 20th century, and this is still the optimistic Gene Roddenberry universe, but there are relatable human frailties within that perfect world."

For Behr, Colm Meaney's 'Miles O'Brien' was a character more relatable to today than any previous TREK character.

"He was the only guy in all of Star Trek that I could relate to. He's intelligent, but not that intelligent, he's a little bigoted, he's a little sexist, he's a little everything and I think that was a nice character to have," he recalls.

The darker, edgier and less perfect universe of DS9 was the chief reason Behr, who had left TNG after the third season, hopped back into the fold.

"I had lunch with Michael and Rick Berman, and they said, 'There will be more humour, more conflict, more characters to play with, less tech. People will be more neurotic and unhappy and dark,' and I said, 'Okay, I think I can do that!'"

That said, I'd say in its later seasons that even TNG loosened up a bit wrt its perfect characters, i.e. The Pegasu, the First Duty, etc. 

 

O'Brian was one of the reasons I like DS 9 Pale Moonlight not so much


Are you kidding pale moonlight was by far there best episode?

Trekwolf164

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 32043

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 11:13 am

I dislike corruption in Government no matter what the reason


I understand that it is a fact of life


but I don't like it in the Hero of my Science Fiction


www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcdZla4gKk0

TyrThunor

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 75

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 11:18 am

Quote: Treknoir @ Feb. 11 2011, 10:10 am

Quote: TyrThunor @ Feb. 11 2011, 9:52 am

What a joke, lolz after reading this I feeling like going back to hating star trek. Characters without conflict lolz, but it's okay as long as their foreign to the federation. What a bizzare way to look at things. God, Gene really had a massiah complex. Nog loosing his leg, and his rehab is what made DS9 too good. I'm really sick of this idea that gene rodenberry is star trek. The only series he really made, he contradicted when he said their shouldn't be interpersonal conflict. Don't get me wrong it's a nobel goal, and if your gonna pay for the series out of your own pocket sure go with it.
No, don't hate ST! I agree Gene's edict was/is a RIDICULOUS concept.


What I hate is how people turn it into some trekkie pseudo religion.
It's either you gotta be a fundamentalist or not like star trek at all.

Worst of all they call you a non fan because you want start trek to improve and grow, instead of stagnating and sticking to the old ways when A the show is near 50 years old and B the show is suppose to be about the future not the past.


Gene rodenberry wasn't god, he can be wrong some times, and not wanting humans to act human seems to be a bizarre concept for a show that was suppose to be about the human condition.


This human aspect of DS9 is what made the show so good. Without it, you'd have just another sci fi show.

Camorite

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5510

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 11:19 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Feb. 11 2011, 11:13 am

I dislike coruption in Government no matter what the reason


too bad it happens all the time.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

TyrThunor

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 75

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 11:22 am

Quote: Camorite @ Feb. 11 2011, 11:19 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Feb. 11 2011, 11:13 am

I dislike coruption in Government no matter what the reason
too bad it happens all the time.

Lol it doesn't just happen it's the nature of the human condition.

Anytime captain kirk broke procedure, dating a staff member etc, he was being corrupt. The simple fact that spock was offered a job in the same department as his father is beyond corrupt.


Not wanting anything that makes star trek feel somewhat realistic, is a huge burden on star trek.

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 11:29 am

Quote: Treknoir @ Feb. 11 2011, 9:34 am

Ah, Gene's edict. I wonder what drove him to that position?


I think what drove him to this position was he started reading (and believing) too much of his own press back in the mid-70's when Star Trek really started to catch on.

Gene would repeatedly get asked over and over again "Why is Star Trek so universally popular and successful?" and, being the salesman and opportunist that he is, he knew that answering with "because it is a fun adventure story that is visually interesting, has unique and fun characters, and occasionally some pretty edgy sci-fi ideas" was NOT the most entertaining or ENTERPRISING answer.

So, he started buying into this whole idea that he was a "visionary" and that the series was about some high-meaning philosophy about the future of mankind and how evolved and enlightened we will all become. He started capitalizing on the idea or "Roddenberry's Vision of the Future" to the point where being that visionary was more important than being an entertainer.

The result of all that was that Gene REALLY BELIEVED that Star Trek needed to show this sterile, enlightened, PC existance as a guide to humanity's path to the future.

What he forgot was that it is a MUCH MORE INTERESTING (and powerful) message to show that human beings are STILL flawed and imperfect, and that we managed to survive and thrive in spite of those weaknesses! That's the real drama and human story! That's the real inspirational stuff! And, unfortunately, in the later years, he really lost sight of that, and there were stories, characters, and entire series that suffered becuase of it.

I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Trekwolf164

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 32043

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 11:29 am

Quote: TyrThunor @ Feb. 11 2011, 11:22 am

Quote: Camorite @ Feb. 11 2011, 11:19 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Feb. 11 2011, 11:13 am

>I dislike corruption in Government no matter what the reason


I understand that it is a fact of life


but I don't like it in the Hero of my Science Fiction
too bad it happens all the time.
Lol it doesn't just happen it's the nature of the human condition. Anytime captain kirk broke procedure, dating a staff member etc, he was being corrupt. The simple fact that spock was offered a job in the same department as his father is beyond corrupt. Not wanting anything that makes star trek feel somewhat realistic, is a huge burden on star trek.
I see it more as the burden the Hero truly bears. Superman can love Lois but if he really gave her a hug she would be dead.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcdZla4gKk0

Camorite

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5510

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 11:34 am

Superman can love Lois but if he really gave her a hug she would be dead.


Not true, he does it all the time in Smallville, Lois and Clark, and in many SM comics that i have read over the years.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

TyrThunor

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 75

Report this Feb. 11 2011, 11:41 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Feb. 11 2011, 11:29 am

Quote: TyrThunor @ Feb. 11 2011, 11:22 am

Quote: Camorite @ Feb. 11 2011, 11:19 am

Quote: Trekwolf164 @ Feb. 11 2011, 11:13 am

>I dislike corruption in Government no matter what the reason


I understand that it is a fact of life


but I don't like it in the Hero of my Science Fiction
too bad it happens all the time.
Lol it doesn't just happen it's the nature of the human condition. Anytime captain kirk broke procedure, dating a staff member etc, he was being corrupt. The simple fact that spock was offered a job in the same department as his father is beyond corrupt. Not wanting anything that makes star trek feel somewhat realistic, is a huge burden on star trek.
I see it more as the burden the Hero truly bears. Superman can love Lois but if he really gave her a hug she would be dead.


Lol if you guys think star trek should be as sterile characters that function like andriods there's no hope in a new star trek ever arising.

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