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Star Trek Enterprise "Errors"

Camorite

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Report this Jan. 30 2011, 8:32 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

 

"Errors", "Canon violations" and "Inconsistencies" are always brought up when discussing Enterprise, specifically when folks are justifying their dislike for the series.

List them so we can discuss.

Try to be specific please.

Thanks



i jsut hope that i doesn't get ugly here yanks

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Camorite

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Report this Jan. 30 2011, 8:34 pm

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I feel the biggest error was made from the get-go in Broken Bow, where a Romulan ship was stated as the Bird of Prey.  (this thread should prove to be very interesting)

 



ok, when was the Romulans even mentioned in Broken Bow, because i don't remember them even being mentioned until season two's Mine Field.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Matthias Russell

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Report this Jan. 31 2011, 5:45 am

I failed to see any issues with mine field. The ships were a different configuration than the one in balance of terror.

Here's one. In TMP, the enterprise legacy sketches don't show an nx and in Archer's ready room, there is no sketch of the ring ship. This could be explained away by saying they also only showed one aircraft carrier enterprise.

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Jan. 31 2011, 7:44 am

Quote: Camorite @ Jan. 30 2011, 8:34 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>I feel the biggest error was made from the get-go in Broken Bow, where a Romulan ship was stated as the Bird of Prey.  (this thread should prove to be very interesting)

>
ok, when was the Romulans even mentioned in Broken Bow, because i don't remember them even being mentioned until season two's Mine Field.
In "Broken Bow", Vulcan Ambassador Tos mentioned "... a squadron of (Klingon) warbirds." Fans associate warbirds with the Romulans, because of TNG, DS9, and VGR. Exacerbating the issue, Braga admitted to the mistake in an interview shortly after ENT's premier. But interestingly enough, it's not a mistake!! The mistake was later going on to name Klingon Ships Birds of Prey in ENT. Here's why: In TOS' "Balance of Terror", the Romulan Ship was a Bird of Prey (Klingon ships were referred to as D7 Battle Cruisers in the mid 23rd Century). Now momentarily stepping out of the Star Trek universe and into the Production universe, Star Trek III: TSFS originally intended to portray the Romulans as the villains and so a Bird of Prey was written into the script. Subsequent drafts replaced the Romulans with Klingons, but the Bird of Prey reference was never changed. TNG forwarded TSFS continuity and gave Romulans warbirds.


 


Production cited TOS' season 3 episode "The Enterprise Incident" to bridge the discontinuity, suggesting a temporary alliance existed between the Klingons and Romulans. Had ENT stuck with warbirds, the timeline would have proceeded: 22nd Century - Klingons have warbirds; mid-23rd Century - Klingons/Romulan alliance, exchange of technology and designs, which lead to Klingons having Birds of Prey and Romulans with Warbirds. 


The above hypothesis no longer exists or is severely skewed for the evidence no longer fits. If all things are to be equal, one must accept parallel development or an encounter, sometime before ENT, where early Klingons and Romulans shared information and the terms "warbird" and "bird of prey" were embedded in their collective mythologies. However, these terms really aren't that shocking for two warlike civilizations, so parallel development would equally fit.

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Jan. 31 2011, 7:50 am

This is an enjoyable and somewhat challenging topic, Yanks, as many inconsistencies are overexaggerated or simply wrong. I believe ENT did a great job at solving many inconsistencies, brought on by the earlier shows, than it did at creating more.

Ghostmojo

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Report this Jan. 31 2011, 9:39 am

And that issue was dealt with in Bennett's book Ex Machina. In this story it was put down to the undue haste of launching the still incomplete refitted Enterprise NCC 1701. He explains it as being a prototype ship which was intended for use, but later scrapped - or at least not used as originally intended. After the V'Ger incident he reports the correct image of Archer's ship was placed in the display alcove. In the opening credits of ENT we also see the historic sailing ship HMS Enterprize (oddly spelt with a Zed).


to boldy go where no man has gone before

Camorite

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Report this Jan. 31 2011, 10:35 am

In "Broken Bow", Vulcan Ambassador Tos mentioned "... a squadron of (Klingon) warbirds." Fans associate warbirds with the Romulans, because of TNG, DS9, and VGR. Exacerbating the issue, Braga admitted to the mistake in an interview shortly after ENT's premier. But interestingly enough, it's not a mistake!! The mistake was later going on to name Klingon Ships Birds of Prey in ENT. Here's why: In TOS' "Balance of Terror", the Romulan Ship was a Bird of Prey (Klingon ships were referred to as D7 Battle Cruisers in the mid 23rd Century).


Hmm, interesting points here lostshaker, but i will point out a few things. First off for the warbird mention (Just so you know, i consider this nitpicking at its best as it is so minor). This is not a mistake, imo, as the entire premis of Enterprise is that it is a prequal taking place 100 years before TOS happened, and there is a strong possibility that Klingons did call thier ships warbirds back then. There is the in universe explanation, the out of universe is that it was, like berman said, a mistake in the script that was overlooked.


Second, why is the term bird of prey in dispute. Klingon ships were called Bird of Prey's throughout the movies, TNG, and DS9. just becuase the romulans also called thier ships that during TOS means nothing, as it is more established that the Klingons did.


As i have said all along 90-99% of these errors can be explained my simple logic and common sence.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Dendodge

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POSTS: 945

Report this Jan. 31 2011, 10:49 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 31 2011, 5:45 am

I failed to see any issues with mine field. The ships were a different configuration than the one in balance of terror. Here's one. In TMP, the enterprise legacy sketches don't show an nx and in Archer's ready room, there is no sketch of the ring ship. This could be explained away by saying they also only showed one aircraft carrier enterprise.

I have always assumed that the NX-01 was commemorated with a model or statue of some kind in an alcove that was never seen on screen, so having it on the wall too would have been overkill. Retcon FTW!

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 31 2011, 10:55 am

I've mentioned this before and is an overly picky error. On Risa, Archer said it was the furthest out humans had ever been when Quonos was much further out.

Also, in STVI, it was said no one had ever escaped Rurapenthe but Archer had.

Ghostmojo

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POSTS: 1826

Report this Jan. 31 2011, 11:17 am

The whole Rura Penthe thing was clutching at straws wasn't it? Just more trawling through the Star Trek archives looking for ideas to reuse ...

to boldy go where no man has gone before

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Jan. 31 2011, 12:41 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Jan. 31 2011, 10:35 am

In "Broken Bow", Vulcan Ambassador Tos mentioned "... a squadron of (Klingon) warbirds." Fans associate warbirds with the Romulans, because of TNG, DS9, and VGR. Exacerbating the issue, Braga admitted to the mistake in an interview shortly after ENT's premier. But interestingly enough, it's not a mistake!! The mistake was later going on to name Klingon Ships Birds of Prey in ENT. Here's why: In TOS' "Balance of Terror", the Romulan Ship was a Bird of Prey (Klingon ships were referred to as D7 Battle Cruisers in the mid 23rd Century).

Hmm, interesting points here lostshaker, but i will point out a few things. First off for the warbird mention (Just so you know, i consider this nitpicking at its best as it is so minor). This is not a mistake, imo, as the entire premis of Enterprise is that it is a prequal taking place 100 years before TOS happened, and there is a strong possibility that Klingons did call thier ships warbirds back then. There is the in universe explanation, the out of universe is that it was, like berman said, a mistake in the script that was overlooked.

Second, why is the term bird of prey in dispute. Klingon ships were called Bird of Prey's throughout the movies, TNG, and DS9. just becuase the romulans also called thier ships that during TOS means nothing, as it is more established that the Klingons did.

As i have said all along 90-99% of these errors can be explained my simple logic and common sence.



Camorite, I certainly agree continuity isn't breached as I had gone on to say. More to the point, ENT was brilliant with continuity in two manners: Section 31 and Perspective. Any discontinuities throughout the Star Trek Universe can arguably be attributed to Section 31's meddling and an ensuing cover up. The character's are only as good as the information available, and no doubt S31 influences the distribution of information to forward an agenda.

The second point relates to the perspective of the characters. TOS through VGR offered a semi-balanced and objective perspective. But ENT offered a distinctly human perspective, which was subjective and biased in the beginning. Through experience the crew gradually matured into more objective explorers. The difference in those two perspectives also permit what can seemingly be called discontinuities, even if no discontinuities truly exist.

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Jan. 31 2011, 12:52 pm

Quote: Ghostmojo @ Jan. 31 2011, 11:17 am

>The whole Rura Penthe thing was clutching at straws wasn't it? Just more trawling through the Star Trek archives looking for ideas to reuse ...
I disagree with this assessment. Most prequels fail because they don't appropriately pick up on and address threads left by earlier shows/movies. Take Star Wars for example. Where was the great friendship between Kenobi and Skywalker? Or The Clone Wars - Clones fighting machines was retarded. It should have been Clones fighting Clones. But ENT took references and built upon them by actually incorporating them into the plot, rather than letting the references be superfluous. One of many elements of Abrams' movie, annoying me to no end, is that the majority of references added nothing to the story; they were simply there for nostalgia. Season 4 ran with the background mythology, which is why it's my favorite season across all the shows.

Ghostmojo

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POSTS: 1826

Report this Jan. 31 2011, 1:40 pm

I respect your view but beg to differ. I'm more of a cynic and would direct you to the most recent posts on the Why The Star Trek Franchise Died thread.


http://www.startrek.com/boards-topic/33345980/why-the-star-trek-franchise-died


I think the problem is not so much that the stories didn't make sense, or didn't fit in pre-established scenarios - it's not that at all. It's just that these programmes and this series were being made for the wrong reasons. It was about milking a franchise and slapping Star Trek on something not really worthy of carrying it. As I say, ENT was a damn sight better than VOY or DS9 (IMHO) but still not really REAL Star Trek - more like Son of Trek.


to boldy go where no man has gone before

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Jan. 31 2011, 9:50 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

I've mentioned this before and is an overly picky error. On Risa, Archer said it was the furthest out humans had ever been when Quonos was much further out. Also, in STVI, it was said no one had ever escaped Rurapenthe but Archer had.
Actually, the mistake was in BB. Archer said it was 4.5 days to Quonos, that's just a gross oversite. Every star chart I've seen puts the Klingon homeworld much further away. This is the only "canon error" I know of in Enterprise.


I never thought too hard about the 4.5 days to Qo'nos, but I do have a proposed solution. The Vulcan Star Charts could have included mapped spatial vortices, the result of the sphere network in the Delphic Expanse, which provided the NX a short cut. These vortices could also account for ranges achieved by ships like the S.S. Valiant circa 2165. The vortices would have disappeared with the dissolution of the sphere network and Delphic Expanse.

Yanks, nice catch on the Klingon battlecruiser. Had to go back and watch that one.

lostshaker

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Report this Jan. 31 2011, 9:51 pm

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Quote: /view_profile/ @

>I've mentioned this before and is an overly picky error. On Risa, Archer said it was the furthest out humans had ever been when Quonos was much further out. Also, in STVI, it was said no one had ever escaped Rurapenthe but Archer had.

In 2293 when Captain James T. Kirk and Doctor Leonard McCoy were imprisoned in Rura Penthe, it was stated that no one had ever escaped. Obviously this was not true, as Captain Jonathan Archer escaped in 2152, but it could be speculated that this was propaganda to discourage criminals from attempting to escape.


Klingons don't discuss matters with outsiders (unless you happen to be Captain Picard).

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