Why Do Many Fans Not Want To Read the Books?

Vger23

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Report this Jan. 24 2011, 1:18 pm

I think the books tend to get away from "core" Star Trek:

-It seems like you can't find a book that isn't part of a larger story arc.
-The books, instead of being "orignial adventures," all seem to be sequels or explanations to events that have already taken place.
-Too much crossover. I don't care about Commander Shelby and Admiral Leonard James Akaar journeying to rescue Dr. Bashir from the clutches of Sela.
-They're usually more about politics than about exploring

For the most part, the books are just waaaaay too fanwanky.

The last Star Trek book that I read that I completely enjoyed and didn't feel like I was reading some fanwank crossover thing was "Reign in Hell: The Exile of Khan Noonian Singh."

Otherwise, they really just don't appeal to me. There are always excpetions, but that's my best answer.

I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Matthias Russell

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Report this Jan. 24 2011, 1:30 pm

Quote: Tureaz'47 @ Jan. 24 2011, 6:12 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 24 2011, 6:02 am

>I don't think the books have any more personal agenda than the show did. Personal touches, yes. Curving the stories to whim, not anymore.
If folks are into it, all power to them. I'm an aware person, so I like to keep to those things that are true, where it belongs. Personal touch is going to be present; it's the extent of the innuendo that I am aware of. Degree's vary, of course; for myself, I don't like to be caught up in it, and that's why I would rather watch it.


Could you be more specific. This is kind of vague and I am trying to understand your feelings.

Vger, I agree with you on some points. I am not big on the politics either but enjoy the flowing story arcs. I enjoy the original characters, especially the ones that would be difficult to do in a television show; it is one of the things I like about Titan. You make arguments that well represent your side. Thank you.

toranaprem

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Report this Jan. 24 2011, 10:34 pm

I'm a serious bookworm. That said I've only read about 20 Star Trek novels, mostly early TOS. This is mainly because in the early days of Trek writing, women authors were the majority and the relationships between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were portrayed as particularly close. After awhile there was a backlash against this kind of emphasis, so now I go to fan fiction to get more Star Trek, since the fan fiction authors tend to write the characters more in keeping with the way I see them. There is a lot of incredibly good writing in the K/S genre, for example, that can never be published, and this is what I'd usually rather be reading anyway if I'm feeling like reading Star Trek. I've always loved Margaret Wander Bonanno's work however, and now that she's allowed to publish Trek fiction again, I'm a little more interested.


I'll probably end up reading the DS9 relaunch, at least starting it, since I dearly want that story to continue. But I've heard enough about where they're taking that series that I'm pretty underwhelmed. And because all the novels have to be internally consist now, if something I do not like is done in a novel, it cannot be "undone" by another novel I like better. I -prefer- the days when Star Trek novels could blatantly contradict one another and I could cherry-pick the stories I liked and disregard the rest. Now if I want to pick up just one new novel that sounds interesting, its part of a large series that is likely to ultimately disappoint me, or it won't make sense if I don't read the 10+ books written before it. It's harder to just pick up a new Trek book that sounds intriguing now, because they're all haunted by the shadows of books I'm not interested in, instead of being allowed to stand alone on their own merits.


That's always the hardest thing about tie-in novels though, how much they do or do not tie in to your own interpretation of the work. At least with fan fiction the varieties are endless. And there's a feast of material for the K/S inclined in particular.


"What will they find when I am ripped apart? 'I love you, captain' written on my heart."

Matthias Russell

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 4:43 am

Torana, at least read the books that opened the ds9 relaunch, starting with "avatar", and also "unity". I would also say the books are far better than fan fic because the authors are professionally trained and experienced which adds to quality. I would also say the professional authors love trek as much as the fans which adds to their drive to put out a good product.

toranaprem

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 10:53 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 25 2011, 4:43 am

>Torana, at least read the books that opened the ds9 relaunch, starting with "avatar", and also "unity". I would also say the books are far better than fan fic because the authors are professionally trained and experienced which adds to quality. I would also say the professional authors love trek as much as the fans which adds to their drive to put out a good product.


I don't know much about fan fiction authors outside of K/S, but I can tell you as a literature major/writer/bookworm that there are some FANTASTIC fan fiction authors, that are just as good, if not better than many of the professional authors I've read. Killa (author of the K/S classic Bitter Glass) is an incredible writer, and that novel is as well written as any of the pro novels I've read, and better than most of them. It doesn't matter how good a writer is, however, if the story isn't marketable. It won't/can't be professional published. 


Sure there's a lot of crap fan fiction too, but remember Sturgeon's Law that 90% of everything is crap. You just have to know which authors to read. Some of the pro authors certainly love Star Trek as much as the fans, but I doubt how many of them love it for the same reasons I do.


"What will they find when I am ripped apart? 'I love you, captain' written on my heart."

rocketscientist

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 1:11 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 23 2011, 4:15 pm

So, why do many fans have no interest in reading the books?

 



Well, I was interested in the books as a kid. I probably read between 30 or 40 of them, the vast majority were TOS. The last one I read, I think was a TNG book by Peter David. Anyway, in hindsight, most of them were ok and a few were great (i.e ones by hard sf author Greg Bear, Howard Weinstein, Diane Carey, Vonda McIntyre, sci-fi author David Gerrold, Diane Duane, Peter David, etc.). That said, I'd generally describe them as light or "beach reading" as one ST book review I recall put it.

Now, as to why I'm not interested in reading them anymore, it's generally because there are many other original works of fiction I'd rather read by generally better authors (not the ones I named, they were all good authors). I have DVD collections of TOS, TNG, DS9, and even VOY, as well as all the films but two. With so much ST on film, I just don't feel the need to read any ST books, especially when they're generally non-canonical (they all are considered non-canonical, right?). All the other ones I read had no lasting effects on the characters either. You knew everything would return back to 0, no matter how drastic a path the characters took. It's kind of like a comic book universe, where no lasting changes can be made with shared characters.

For those reasons, I'd rather read an original work, and I've done so for many years. I'm currently enjoying Gene Wolfe's Soldier of Sidon right now. I'd rather read Wolfe, Niven, Howard, Vance, McDonald, Reynolds, Hamilton, Tolkien, Anderson, Asimov, than another ST novel with my limited time.


>> Now can/should we encourage readership?




I dunno. I kind of think it'd be better if people read original works by generally better authors. I mean, both James Blish and Alan Dean Foster were known as a famous sci-fi authors before they novelized TOS and TAS, respectively. I wonder how many fans have read Foster's original fiction? They're really great! I'd rather support authors of original work.



>>Now that the "relaunch" books have better editorial controls in place than the old books to prevent contradictions, are they more respectable to fans?  (And for possible authors-)



Speaking for myself, better editorial control doesn't make much difference. The one thing I will say is now, from what I've heard, real changes can be made to the status quo, i.e. Janeway staying dead. That's kind of cool and I can certainly see that being an attraction to readers. That said, now you have the same issues with canon that the franchise has that was already alluded to: the tighter continuity makes it a bit harder to attract new readers. I guess it's a two edged sword in that regard.



Do the "relaunch" books have more respect within the franchise so we wouldn't expect them to be contradicted by future screen material?



I doubt it. They never did before, with the exception of STXI, where Roberto Orci incorporated elements of Diane Carey's "Best Destiny," for Kirk's history. So he's one guy that's done it. I'd say, though, that it's the same as before: live action is definitely canon. Maybe the official reference books can be considered canonical too. I'd say the novels, aren't though, especially since GR can no longer vet them (not that that was a good thing to begin with based on his past actions in this regard).



>> If you don't read Trek books, why?



Already answered.



>>If you do read them, what keeps you coming back?



Again, it's because there are so many other books I'd rather read.


Matthias Russell

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 1:34 pm

Very insightful and thought out as always, rocketscientist. Thank you.

toranaprem

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 2:15 pm

Kind of totally off topic, but I saw the Gene Wolfe mention. The Book of the New Sun is one of my favorite literary works of all time.


"What will they find when I am ripped apart? 'I love you, captain' written on my heart."

rocketscientist

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 2:48 pm

Quote: toranaprem @ Jan. 25 2011, 2:15 pm

Kind of totally off topic, but I saw the Gene Wolfe mention. The Book of the New Sun is one of my favorite literary works of all time.



Mine too, Torana! I read that last year, followed by The Book of the New Sun and The Book of the Short Sun.

Not only does Wolfe tell great stories with great characters, but he tells those stories with so much more style and flair than most other writers. He's regarded as one of the finest living writers by many critics.

BTW, do you think it'd be possible to make "New Sun" into a film franchise? Do you think it's doable or do you think it'd probably be butchered by screenwriters or that it would lose it's great ambiguity, due to its unreliable narrator, Severian?

Ghostmojo

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 4:00 pm

I gave up because there were too many - and that was just concentrating on TOS-related books! I couldn't imagine having a go at everything! The whole marketplace is huge.

to boldy go where no man has gone before

Matthias Russell

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 4:49 pm

Well, ghostmojo, you could pick a favorite series and stick with those.


 


Star Trek and Clive Cussler are the only fiction I read. Other than that I stick to history and biographies. In fact, it bothers me that we divide books into fiction and non fiction instead of reality and non reality.


toranaprem

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 5:18 pm

Quote: rocketscientist @ Jan. 25 2011, 2:48 pm

Quote: toranaprem @ Jan. 25 2011, 2:15 pm

>

>Kind of totally off topic, but I saw the Gene Wolfe mention. The Book of the New Sun is one of my favorite literary works of all time.

>
Mine too, Torana! I read that last year, followed by The Book of the New Sun and The Book of the Short Sun. Not only does Wolfe tell great stories with great characters, but he tells those stories with so much more style and flair than most other writers. He's regarded as one of the finest living writers by many critics. BTW, do you think it'd be possible to make "New Sun" into a film franchise? Do you think it's doable or do you think it'd probably be butchered by screenwriters or that it would lose it's great ambiguity, due to its unreliable narrator, Severian?


That's a really good question. Part of me would really, really, really love to see movie adaptions. I mean, the visual potential...


But I think you're absolutely right to wonder how well an unreliable narrator translates to film. I know its been attempted before, but can you think of any examples where it's been done really well?


Either way, the film adaptions would -have- to maintain the frame of Severian telling his own story or it simply won't work. A film would also lack all the archaic terminology that makes reading the stories such a mind-warpingly alien experience. Hopefully the awesomeness of the cinematography would be able to recreate this hallucinogenic feeling adequately.


"What will they find when I am ripped apart? 'I love you, captain' written on my heart."

rocketscientist

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Report this Jan. 26 2011, 7:36 am

Quote: toranaprem @ Jan. 25 2011, 5:18 pm

Quote: rocketscientist @ Jan. 25 2011, 2:48 pm

Quote: toranaprem @ Jan. 25 2011, 2:15 pm

>

>Kind of totally off topic, but I saw the Gene Wolfe mention. The Book of the New Sun is one of my favorite literary works of all time.

>
Mine too, Torana! I read that last year, followed by The Book of the New Sun and The Book of the Short Sun. Not only does Wolfe tell great stories with great characters, but he tells those stories with so much more style and flair than most other writers. He's regarded as one of the finest living writers by many critics. BTW, do you think it'd be possible to make "New Sun" into a film franchise? Do you think it's doable or do you think it'd probably be butchered by screenwriters or that it would lose it's great ambiguity, due to its unreliable narrator, Severian?

That's a really good question. Part of me would really, really, really love to see movie adaptions. I mean, the visual potential...

But I think you're absolutely right to wonder how well an unreliable narrator translates to film. I know its been attempted before, but can you think of any examples where it's been done really well?

Either way, the film adaptions would -have- to maintain the frame of Severian telling his own story or it simply won't work. A film would also lack all the archaic terminology that makes reading the stories such a mind-warpingly alien experience. Hopefully the awesomeness of the cinematography would be able to recreate this hallucinogenic feeling adequately.



I think you've nailed down some of the problems with doing films of "New Sun." It would take someone like Peter Jackson who really respected the source material and had some idea of a way to effectively translate them to the film medium. You'd certainly have to make some compromisess because a large part of what makes the books great is definitely the way the story is told.

BTW, in my previous post I meant "The Book of the Long Sun" and "The Book of the Short Sun." If you haven't read those yet, well, they were really really good. I also really liked his "Soldier in the Mist" books about Latro.

Tureaz'47

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Report this Jan. 26 2011, 7:49 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 24 2011, 1:30 pm

Quote: Tureaz'47 @ Jan. 24 2011, 6:12 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 24 2011, 6:02 am

>I don't think the books have any more personal agenda than the show did. Personal touches, yes. Curving the stories to whim, not anymore.
If folks are into it, all power to them. I'm an aware person, so I like to keep to those things that are true, where it belongs. Personal touch is going to be present; it's the extent of the innuendo that I am aware of. Degree's vary, of course; for myself, I don't like to be caught up in it, and that's why I would rather watch it.
Could you be more specific. This is kind of vague and I am trying to understand your feelings. Vger, I agree with you on some points. I am not big on the politics either but enjoy the flowing story arcs. I enjoy the original characters, especially the ones that would be difficult to do in a television show; it is one of the things I like about Titan. You make arguments that well represent your side. Thank you.



Some folks, aren't avid readers. I spend 2-3 hours, researching a newspaper and reading material that is non fiction, otherwise, I watch it. Why waste the time? I don't read fiction, because it is filled with the writer's personal innuendo. Annoying.

It's strange, being a catalyst for things that move outside.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Jan. 26 2011, 11:48 am

If you avoid any media because you don't want to be tainted by personal bias and skewed viewpoints than you have to avoid all media.

I realized a key difference between the books and screen material that may limit appeal. The books don't have those inspirational gadgets, costumes, and sets that are part of Trek makeup. I don't think reading about such things has the same awe factor.

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