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Warp Drive?

Whitestar7

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 419

Report this Mar. 06 2011, 8:33 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

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>

>Yeah, I getcha. I refuse to believe warp drive won't work, despite stacked evidence. But I can tell you're open to new idea's where scientific evidence is present.

>This just in, a new film called "Transcendental Man" (featuring an interview with Bill Shatner) poses the date for singularity at 2029. I'd love to believe this, and if true we should advance rapidly from this point. There's a trailer on iTunes.

>


Hey 4_o_20, that was a good link about blackhole starships!   While the transporter is perhaps the only piece of treknology that will always be impossible because the process would kill you, I have no doubt that nearly all of the other treknologies will become a reality one day, especially warp drive. The fact that our universe is constantly expanding is what validates warp drive, however, you make a valid point about the warp bubble would fry any starship inside. Also, once the warp bubble is activated, there is no way to control or steer the starship, it would be like a runaway train. One way to compensate for this is to use two warp bubbles, that is, the first warp bubble can be activated with nothing inside, then the starship matches the coordinates of the first warp bubble and then activates it's own secondary warp bubble. Eventually, the second warp bubble catches up with the first warp bubble and once they come into contact, both automatically are deactivated and the starship comes to an instant stop. Personally, I think a better option would be to fold space by bringing points A and B closer together using a fold generator. Plus, it would be safer to use unlike the warp bubble because you don't run the risk of colliding with any objects such as asteroids, dust particles, planets, etc. Here are some diagrams of the folding generator I created on Illustrator in four steps:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/33293996@N06/with/5505220658/


 

janewayjunkie74656

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POSTS: 3227

Report this Mar. 06 2011, 11:56 pm

Well I don't know about warp drive because right now they're saying that if you simply go past the speed of light, then you'll be in time warp.


But in Star Trek they say if you go past warp 10 you'll be everywhere in the universe simultaneously, and its cool, but you just get turned into a lizard that mates with the captain.


Wow, very odd.


Join Moon Crater Plaza! A great new board looking for lots of new members! http://s4.zetaboards.com/Moon_Crater_Plaza/index/

The Master

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POSTS: 404

Report this Mar. 07 2011, 1:37 am

Maybe I do not really get the point, Dryson, but I am doubtious whether this method will work because it seems to violate momentum conservation (well, it is not conserved in curved space time, generally speaking, but nevertheless it still resembless pulling yourself from swamp by hair). Indeed, if you throw something forward, then you get momentum in backward direction, and then if you use what you have thrown to pull yourself forward you just return the momentum back. From the other side, if you use reaction-propulsion unit (impulse drive) and at the same time warp the space in front of you, then, with some tension, it is ok. Besides the fact that you need high mass to curve space, so it is not that simple.

Whitestar7

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 419

Report this Mar. 07 2011, 7:32 am

Quote: The Master @ Mar. 07 2011, 1:37 am

>

>Maybe I do not really get the point, Dryson, but I am doubtious whether this method will work because it seems to violate momentum conservation (well, it is not conserved in curved space time, generally speaking, but nevertheless it still resembless pulling yourself from swamp by hair). Indeed, if you throw something forward, then you get momentum in backward direction, and then if you use what you have thrown to pull yourself forward you just return the momentum back. From the other side, if you use reaction-propulsion unit (impulse drive) and at the same time warp the space in front of you, then, with some tension, it is ok. Besides the fact that you need high mass to curve space, so it is not that simple.

>


Hello The Master. Yes, you're right, it's not that simple, but an extremely advanced civilization could do it. And by the way, my name is not Dryson, it's Whitestar.  

The Master

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POSTS: 404

Report this Mar. 07 2011, 7:54 am

Quote: Whitestar7 @ Mar. 07 2011, 7:32 am

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>Hello The Master. Yes, you're right, it's not that simple, but an extremely advanced civilization could do it. And by the way, my name is not Dryson, it's Whitestar.  

>


Hello Whitestar, good to meet you. I am sorry, I was actually responding to Dryson's text, that is why I addressed my post to him . Anyway, if you share similar ideas which I have touched in my post, then you can freely substitute your name in appropriate place. Anyway I do not wish to speculate whether some advanced civilazations created warp drive, because you know, it is unlikely for even primitive life to start not even talking about probability of development of advanced civilazation. Nevertheless, if it is possile in principle, then I do not mind. So, suppose that there is really advanced civilization out there. Suppose that this civilization therefore is capable of doing (almost) anything that is theoretically possible. Then this brings us back to the discussion of concrete realization of warp drive from technical and physical points of view. Because we want to know how this advanced civilization will create theirs warp drive. That is what I was talking about . And I have just responded to concrete suggestion of warp drive, underlining its principal drawbacks.


You can hide a lot in a large-N matrix

dryson

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Report this Mar. 09 2011, 8:01 am

Well I don't know about warp drive because right now they're saying that if you simply go past the speed of light, then you'll be in time warp.



In what frame of reference are you referring to when you write "time warp?"


If you are meaning that time actually warps and transports you to another era in time then what you are meaning is wrong.


If a ship were to travel at ten times the speed of light towards the center of the Universe we would travel closer to the beginning source of the Universe but at the same time the processes that created the Universe during the Big Bang would be present only in the continual release of energy from the initial Big Bang  The energy that would have been released during the Big Bang would no longer be present in the Universe.


Going faster than the speed of light would not mean that you would occupy all points in space at once. The Universe is infinite or without end. Traveling faster than the speed of light would only mean that you are traveling from point A to point B more rapidly than if you were traveling at light speed.


Time travel makes for fun and interesting sci-fi but in reality it is not possible.


A bullfrog with a light in its belly is nothing more than a glutton looking to shine otherwise.

The Master

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POSTS: 404

Report this Mar. 09 2011, 8:49 am

Quote: dryson @ Mar. 09 2011, 8:01 am

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>Time travel makes for fun and interesting sci-fi but in reality it is not possible.

>


That is 100% correct.


 


You can hide a lot in a large-N matrix

Lewis00069

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POSTS: 134

Report this Mar. 09 2011, 4:06 pm

apparently it is impossible (that is as far as we know) if we cant manipulate the laws of physics in our favour we will just have to find a different way to travel through space. Nothing is impossible in my opinion.

chucktrekA

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POSTS: 35

Report this Mar. 09 2011, 8:05 pm

I firmly believe that All things are possible, until proven otherwise.


After all, the difference between a theory and a theorom, theory is not proven, theorom has been proven.  It is only a matter of "time".

The Master

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POSTS: 404

Report this Mar. 10 2011, 1:35 am

Quote: chucktrekA @ Mar. 09 2011, 8:05 pm

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>After all, the difference between a theory and a theorom, theory is not proven, theorom has been proven.  It is only a matter of "time".

>


Theory consists of axioms and theorems. Proof of theorems is based on axioms. Hence the validity of theory and theorems is the same, and both relies on validity of axioms. In physics axioms are based on experiment, and therefore are valid. Also of course physics takes axioms of math, which in some sense are based on experiment too. So you can take physical theory, such as general relativity, and with the help of it derive limitations on creation of warp drive and similar things.


 


 


You can hide a lot in a large-N matrix

The Master

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POSTS: 404

Report this Mar. 11 2011, 12:12 am

4_o_20, FTL speed which I believe in (not counting I do not understand how to build warp drive) is possible is actually not faster than light locally. It means that indeed, according to special relativity it is impossible to move faster than light, because it will require infinite amount of energy. However in general relativty the bound on speed may be posed only locally - in the vicinity of the body which movement we consider. It is because in general relativity space-time is curved, and all regions of space therefore are generally speaking diffrent from each other. So locally the ship may move with speed less than light speed, say only 1m/s. But globally it can move with with superluminar velocity, because it has warp drive and curves space in front of it, so it just takes 10^6 m in front of it and contracts them to 1 m. The net global result is 3c velocity - this is coordinate velocity, however the real physical velocity is still 1m p. s - becuase physical distance which ship travelled is just 1m.

Chief Warrant Officer
Finn

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Report this Mar. 11 2011, 9:31 am

Quote: The Master @ Mar. 11 2011, 12:12 am

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>4_o_20, FTL speed which I believe in (not counting I do not understand how to build warp drive) is possible is actually not faster than light locally. It means that indeed, according to special relativity it is impossible to move faster than light, because it will require infinite amount of energy. However in general relativty the bound on speed may be posed only locally - in the vicinity of the body which movement we consider. It is because in general relativity space-time is curved, and all regions of space therefore are generally speaking diffrent from each other. So locally the ship may move with speed less than light speed, say only 1m/s. But globally it can move with with superluminar velocity, because it has warp drive and curves space in front of it, so it just takes 10^6 m in front of it and contracts them to 1 m. The net global result is 3c velocity - this is coordinate velocity, however the real physical velocity is still 1m p. s - becuase physical distance which ship travelled is just 1m.

>


 


Correct.  It is theoretically possible to create a bubble of space-time, a pocket universe the same size as your space ship.  Assuming your ship is traveling .5c, you have it create a bubble, then travel .5c inside that.  After reaching .5c in side that bubble, you create yet another bubble, and travel .5c inside that, etc.


Relative to the bubble that your ship is in, you're only traveling 1/2 the speed of light; well within the limitations of relativity.  Outside a single bubble and relative to everyone else, you're traveling 2.5 time the speed of light.


Unfortunately, the energy requirements to do something like this makes the task next to impossible.


Another way to look at this scenario: if you've ever been to an airport, they usually have large conveyer belts that people can walk on to get to their destination faster.  If you imagine this conveyer belt as a pocket universe, the people walking on the conveyer belt (relative to the conveyer belt) are simply walking their normal speed, but relative to the people on the ground, they're walking twice as fast.


Or to use an internet meme: Yo dawg, I heard you like universes, so I put a universe inside your universe!

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