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Abrams needs to do more research

Camorite

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Report this Dec. 26 2010, 3:28 pm

Just to start off, i was not all that displeased with Trek 09, but something kept on nagging at me about the part involving Archers Begal, and the other day i finally did some of my own research and found out that it would have been improbably for it to have been Johnathan Archer that they were talking about as he would have been around 150 years old by the time that Trek 09 took place (not unheardof in the trek universe, but still to old to still be on active duty, at least for a human)


My thoughts are that it had to be either a child or some other relative of Archer that they were refering to, which brings the point that it would be nice if Abrams did just a little more research on trek basics before he directs the next movie.

tribblenator999

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Report this Dec. 26 2010, 4:44 pm

archer probably had a relative that became a admiral in starfleet and also had a pet beagle. They can't explain everything in a movie. We know for sure the original archer would be dead long before the trek movie since in the 24th century mccoy's like the oldest human alive at the age of 134 and they couldn't have life spans like that in the 22nd/23rd centuries. Archer most likely died when he was in his 90s.

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UNTRugby

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Report this Dec. 26 2010, 4:47 pm

its the alternate timeline humans live for 900 years and dogs for 200 there, "mystery" explained

Matthias Russell

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Report this Dec. 26 2010, 5:53 pm

Oh Camorite, I'm so sorry for inspiring another ST09 thread, lol.

HaventGotALife

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Report this Dec. 26 2010, 6:19 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Dec. 26 2010, 3:28 pm

Just to start off, i was not all that displeased with Trek 09, but something kept on nagging at me about the part involving Archers Begal, and the other day i finally did some of my own research and found out that it would have been improbably for it to have been Johnathan Archer that they were talking about as he would have been around 150 years old by the time that Trek 09 took place (not unheardof in the trek universe, but still to old to still be on active duty, at least for a human)

My thoughts are that it had to be either a child or some other relative of Archer that they were refering to, which brings the point that it would be nice if Abrams did just a little more research on trek basics before he directs the next movie.



I want something new out of this series. I want something that makes me walk away from the movie theater thinking about what I just saw. Science Fiction is at its best when it constructs a universe that mirrors our own without feeling like its got an agenda or it isn't creative. I would much rather watch that with bad visual graphics than a CGI masterpiece with nothing said.

An example:

Deep Space Nine was about religion including its politics. It also was about opression and human rights. Therefore, it created an enemy in the Dominion that had been mistreated by the solids. It created genetically-engineered solids that serve no other purpose than to perform tasks for the shape-shifters, bred to worship their creators. This touches on religion, the relationship between God and his creations, and opression. They created a caste system because they mistrust the solids and thought the only way to have them serve their Empire was to assure loyalty by making themselves gods. This is a similar situation the Bajorans faced at the beginning of the series, a potential outcome from those hardships, and there were times when Major Kira was an outright bigot, acting similar to how the Founders acted towards solids.

They were bigger than the Federation, older than the Federation, they had military might and a grudge against the Federation. All those things are easy to see and lead to a lot of drama. But the Dominion served the larger arcs and themes of the show. And because we had tackled opression, putting the Dominion at war with the Federation, the consequence of losing would be to become the servants of people who outright despise you, to become servants in a show about opression, and showing we might actually lose, led to moral crisis after moral crisis for the Federation officers executing the war. It wasn't just flashy or a place to take the show we had never been. It had a purpose and made me think.

This is why it is my favorite series. It's not because it had big battles with ships exploding and had a war. It was a seven-year odyessey about the right of freedom and why it is important to nurture it. From Cardassia where the military took control of the government because people were starving to Bajor that had to overcome its insticts to solve their political problems with military might, to the Klingons occupying the Cardassians, and the natural consequences and varied responses to all of this.

Its stories are about the depth and complexity of human interaction and relationships. It studies us and asks us to look within ourselves, to relate, to ask how would we respond to all that is in their world?

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Dec. 26 2010, 7:31 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Dec. 26 2010, 3:28 pm

Just to start off, i was not all that displeased with Trek 09, but something kept on nagging at me about the part involving Archers Begal, and the other day i finally did some of my own research and found out that it would have been improbably for it to have been Johnathan Archer that they were talking about as he would have been around 150 years old by the time that Trek 09 took place (not unheardof in the trek universe, but still to old to still be on active duty, at least for a human)

My thoughts are that it had to be either a child or some other relative of Archer that they were refering to, which brings the point that it would be nice if Abrams did just a little more research on trek basics before he directs the next movie.



He'd've been 146. It's also not stated that he was actually on active duty. Or that he was even in Starfleet anymore. It's not unusual for people in military organizations (or even those not in the military) to refer to retirees by their last held rank. For example, in "Generations," reporters constantly called Kirk "Captain Kirk," yet shortly after Scotty comments that Kirk seems to be finding retirement lonely.

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Lieutenant_Jedi

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Report this Dec. 26 2010, 8:09 pm

How long ago did Scotty in the movie "disappear" the beagle?

That might effect the age of the Character.

"Can you detect midi - chlorians with a tricorder?"

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Dec. 26 2010, 8:23 pm

He says he's been in the facility on Delta Vega for six months. So The Great Beagle Incident happened at least that long before.

 photo spok_zps253ab564.gif

wissa

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Report this Dec. 26 2010, 8:31 pm

you know, JJ didn't actually write the movie. And there were gaffs in the all the series.


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Lieutenant_Jedi

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Report this Dec. 26 2010, 8:42 pm

I agree with wissa, little details like that get missed. And it is feasible that with modern medicine lifespans are extended quite a bit.

"Can you detect midi - chlorians with a tricorder?"

WkdYngMan

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Report this Dec. 27 2010, 12:27 am

It's the same Archer (writers mentioned this.) He just lived from a long time like McCoy.

jamesspock1

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Report this Dec. 27 2010, 6:38 am

Its amazing how far people will go to give JJ and Crew credit for all the mistakes they did.
Is it not simpler to admit that they screwed up instead of trying to find logical reasons
for mistakes and things that are not explained.

Lieutenant_Jedi

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Report this Dec. 27 2010, 6:41 am

'Its amazing how far people will go to give JJ and Crew credit for all the mistakes they did.
Is it not simpler to admit that they screwed up instead of trying to find logical reasons
for mistakes and things that are not explained."

I certainly admit that there were some screwups in the 2009 movie. But this Archer thing is not even a mistake, just a very long lived guy.

All movies have errors, seeing as their writers and producers are imperfect.

"Can you detect midi - chlorians with a tricorder?"

Camorite

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Report this Dec. 27 2010, 8:56 am

Quote: jamesspock1 @ Dec. 27 2010, 6:38 am

Its amazing how far people will go to give JJ and Crew credit for all the mistakes they did. Is it not simpler to admit that they screwed up instead of trying to find logical reasons for mistakes and things that are not explained.


don't get me wrong, i am not trying to point out every single mistake that was made in this movie, but as Archer is the only captain that is unaffected by Nero's interfearence in the timeline i just doubt that he would have chosen to live for that long a period. FYI it took all of 5 minutes, if that, for me to locate the information on archer, hardly a time consuming task.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Lieutenant_Jedi

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Report this Dec. 27 2010, 9:00 am

"chosen to live"

Chuckle - most of us don't get to choose how long we live.
Instead of picking at this, why don't we look at it as being an encouraging sign. People in the future will live longer! Awesome!

"Can you detect midi - chlorians with a tricorder?"

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