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How did the Klingon Empire survive Star Trek 6?

Camorite

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Report this Dec. 19 2010, 10:42 am

the Klingons were moved to another planet with the help of the Federation, as per the agreement of the Khitomer Accords.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Camorite

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Report this Dec. 19 2010, 10:59 am

if you are looking for an in universe explanation, all i can come up with two reasons for it. the first is that they built it to look that way, and the second is that they established the new Homeworld on a planet that already had a thriving klingon colony on it.

If you want an out of universe explanation the reason is that many of the episodes that featured the klingon homeworld in it (IE: Sins of the Father and Redemtion 1&2) were aired either before or during the time when Trek 6 was being made, so they didn't take that into account while making those episodes.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

tribblenator999

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Report this Dec. 19 2010, 1:09 pm

Qo'Nos of the 24th century is a different qo'nos from the 22nd and 23rd century qo'nos.

"take us out"...

Camorite

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Report this Dec. 19 2010, 1:13 pm

But then the whole idea behind the plot of Star Trek 6 is gone, because the Klingon Empire was suppose to be threatened.


If you feel that way, then so be it, but the fact that they were able to rebuild so well is just testimony to how well the Federation was able to help them.


So does that mean the Klingons could have just up and moved their "base of operations" any time they wanted?


If you mean could they just pack up and leave, yes and no. Yes because thier "base of operations", as you put it, is wherever the Chanclor and the High Counsil are atm and no because you can't just move up and move an entire civilization in the blink of an eye.


Not much of a threat to the Empire.


It was more of a threat to the homeworld then anything else, and since the Chanclor adn the high counsle base themselve on the Homeworld, then yet it would be a threat to the stability of the Empire. Just think of what it would be like is suddenly Washinton DC was considered uninhabitable and the President and all of Congress had to relocate.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Doc Boomstick

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Report this Dec. 19 2010, 2:56 pm

I haven't seen ST6 in a long time, but didn't they imply that the moon was their world's primary energy source? Perhaps the threat to the empire wasn't the loss of one world, but the loss of their livelihood. The Federation could have assisted with resources.

Camorite

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Report this Dec. 19 2010, 4:18 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

OK good points.

i still don't like the idea of a dead klingon home-system; how sad.

so the klingons needed help moving all their people from one system to the next, because all of the klingon economy is focused on the military they needed federation help, this allowed for peace bewteen the federation and the empire (wait the whole worf's father/enetrprise-c thing, but i guess there was 50 years in which that to take place), all of this leading to the TNG world that we now have.

correct?



That was the second khitomer accords, which was what Galron broke when the Klingons invaded Cardassian Space, and reestablished when the Dominion forced them out.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Camorite

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Report this Dec. 19 2010, 4:19 pm

Quote: Doc Boomstick @ Dec. 19 2010, 2:56 pm

I haven't seen ST6 in a long time, but didn't they imply that the moon was their world's primary energy source? Perhaps the threat to the empire wasn't the loss of one world, but the loss of their livelihood. The Federation could have assisted with resources.


Accept that the planet only have 50 years to live, meaning that the destruction of Praxis did something either to the planets orbit or ecology.

"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Matthias Russell

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Report this Dec. 19 2010, 4:54 pm

Where is it stated they moved home worlds? They would leave the home of Kahless? I know the books aren't canon, but I've read plenty of Klingons visiting Kahless sites. I would have thought the federation helped the klingons repair Qonos' atmosphere. If they can terraform, why not fix the planet?

Vger23

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Report this Dec. 20 2010, 6:19 am

None of this is anywhere in "canon." The only thing that is actually said on screen in Star Trek VI is:

1. The destruction of Kronos has led to the deadly pollution of their ozone layer, and they will have depleated their supply of O2 in approximately 50 Earth-years (interesting...but sounds like nonsense to me)
2. The Federation President is heard saying (in the background at Camp Khitomer) "Phase One: Evacuation of Kronos, is schedule to take place..."

I feel that Trek VI simply took substantial liberties with canon and established facts to tell a good story. But Trek VI gets praised while other movies get bashed for doing the same thing. Interesting...

I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Vger23

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Report this Dec. 20 2010, 6:21 am

In TOS, the Klingons were blood-enemies with the Federation. The Excalbians took the "villians" from the minds of the Enterprise crew. Certainly, a renowned leader of your most hated enemy would be thought of as an evil villian, no matter what he was really like.

In a cold war kind of way, I'm sure there was tons of misinformaiton and rumor about the Klingon Empire during the time of TOS.

I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Pooneil

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Report this Dec. 20 2010, 12:43 pm

Did they ever actually say that Praxis was a moon of the Klingon homeworld? Or simply "a Klingon moon" where they produced their energy...which would somehow make its merry way to the rest of the empire.

Doesn't matter. What matters is that the Khitomer peace treaty which was the whole point of the movie meant that the Federation would help the Klingons fix their problems. They had only 50 years left, but I think it's safe to assume that with Federation help they were able to fix their ozone layer, replenish their oxygen, and do whatever they needed done. Maybe the "evacuation of Kronos" that Kurtwood Smith mentioned was only a temporary thing.

Dendodge

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Report this Dec. 20 2010, 12:48 pm

Praxis was destroyed. This would ahve led to the death of the Klingon Empire within 50 years.

However, the Klingon Empire made peace with the Federation: Thus, less money needed to be spent on fighting the Federation, and the two factions could share resources.

The Klingon Empire survived due to its cordial relations with, and assistance from, the Federation. Wasn't that the point of the whole film?

Vger23

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Report this Dec. 20 2010, 1:14 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

not to disagree but ...

i think the point of the movie was that "all things end" even war and new things begin like peace and the undiscovered country etc.

the arguement was that the federation should strike while the enemy was weak otherwise the klingons, in a desperate attempt to survive, would use the only means they had which was military force; which may end badly for a lot of people. but spock had other ideas maybe the klingons would accept, being so weak?

TNG chimes in on this when woirf says that the klingons had no word for peace before some famous negotiator that was on the enetrprise. they also say that the enterprise-c was pivotal in allowing for peace between the federation and the klingons. so the order in which they fall in the "canon" is still unclear to me.

is it all just BS? probably



I think that TNG, although never directly, infers quite strongly that the peace process with the Klingons was a MUCH more broad, complicaed, and drawn-out event than the simple little conference that was depicted in "The Undiscovered Country," which is much more reasonable and realistic.

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Vger23

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Report this Dec. 20 2010, 1:17 pm

Quote: Dendodge @ Dec. 20 2010, 12:48 pm

Praxis was destroyed. This would ahve led to the death of the Klingon Empire within 50 years. However, the Klingon Empire made peace with the Federation: Thus, less money needed to be spent on fighting the Federation, and the two factions could share resources. The Klingon Empire survived due to its cordial relations with, and assistance from, the Federation. Wasn't that the point of the whole film?


Not in my opinion. I felt that the "point" of the film was that the fear of change can be a powerful and dangerous motivator for people. "Peace with the Klingons" was simply an illustration of that large-scale change that all human beings fear and struggle with.

I think Kirk sums the whole point of the movie up in 2 different instances:

1. The conversation with McCoy at Rura Penthe about prejudice and change.
2. The conversation with Spock in his quarters about prejudice and change.

Those are the key elements of the film.

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iBorg13

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Report this Dec. 20 2010, 4:12 pm

no clue, but im interested in the answer...

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