Star Trek

Agree with MR. The books are well written, generally interesting, and affordable.
It would be nice to discuss something other than this well worn argument.

Right, however most of the people who paid the money that the movie made thought it was good or great. There is no definite "great," "good," or "bad," it's all down to personal opinion.

this is the "movie" sub forum

There IS no measure, though. The only OBJECTIVE measures to point to in the quality of a movie are box office receipts and critical reaction. After that, it's just one perosn's opinion agianst another. You can't, as an idividual, say that a movie was "good" or "bad," you can only state that you LIKED it or DIDN'T.

I disagree on "needing" a new series STRONGLY.

The fans are not ready for a new series. The franchise is still in tremendous flux. Any new series would simply cause the same old crap all over again:

"IT'S THE BEST SERIES EVARRR!!!!!"
"NO, TEH SERIES IS THE SUX!!! NOT REEL STAR TRAK!!!! ARRGHHHH!!!"

Any new series should be inserted after JJ Trek is either complete (2 more movies) and the evolution of the fanbase has taken its toll. ALSO, a new series would need to be as different and unique as TNG was to TOS when it first premiered. I don't want to simply see another TNG or VOY. That approach, style, etc. needs to be left in the past, just like TNG left TOS in the past. Audiences have changed. The new show would need to be cutting-edge and risk taking.

The fan base is NOT ready for what a new series would NEED to be in order to be successful.

please spare us the elitist party line "the fans dont deserve a new series" every year they dont have a new series they decrease the likely hood for success when one is made. You talk about catering to a new kind of fan. The new kind of fan has a short attention span and with no series, no other media and 3 years between movies it will be quickly forgotten becuase there is nothing to keep it fresh in their minds.

I just rewatched ST09 myself and liked it even better. I grew up a TNG fan and never had a huge attachment to TOS or its films. However, I loved this film. The cast somehow had a lot more heart than I remember in TOS films. The scene with Pike and Kirk in the bar was fantastic and possibly only beat by Spock's scene in front of the Vulcan council. I'm always crossing my fingers for the return of TNG characters, but admit that it will likely never happen. Maybe we'll see Kirk sipping a bottle of Chateau Picard in the next film at least.

 

EDIT: Something I didn't catch the first time around. The cadets were sent into action because the "primary fleet" were in another sector. Since Nero destorys a pretty large armada in this film, I wonder how big the fleet is in this movie. Also, how was McCoy one of the Enterprise's "senior medical personnel" even though he was a cadet? Officer training program?

Holy $#!t, dude. You're going to accuse ME of being "elitist??????????????" I'm not the one cutting down an entire generation of people as if we're more refined and patient in our tastes and they're just a bunch of stupid, drooling, low-attention span idiots.

I didn't say the fans don't deserve a new series, even thought I actually DO believe that, so thank you. What I said is that the fans aren't READY for a new series. And, frankly, we're not. The behaviors on this board are all you need to look at to see that. That's not elitism...that's genuine dislike. I simply don't like the type of fans who have poisoned the franchise.

Next time you accuse someone of being elitist, it would be best if your very next statement wasn't a stuck-up, agist, pile of crap like"The new kind of fan has a short attention span"

But then again, this comes from a guy who thinks that "new technology" is a key element of Star Trek's future success, so what else should be expected?

Do you REALLY think that if the studios and networks thought a series would be successful, we wouldn't have one? Of course they would. It's all about $$$$$$$. They KNOW that now is not the time.

>>Holy $#!t, dude. You're going to accuse ME of being "elitist??????????????" I'm not the one cutting down an entire generation of people as if we're more refined and patient in our tastes and they're just a bunch of stupid, drooling, low-attention span idiot i didnt cut down an entire generation of people i

t was only a comment about how quickly things move in the internet age. everyone has a short attention span including myself how is that elitist? with the entire selection of tv and movies available on the internet, 400 channels on my tv 2 and a half hours over 3 years is a drop in the bucket compared to the pre-cable age. you only had 3 choices of what to watch and a limited selection of movies to go see and vcrs just becoming popular. you didnt have to do a lot to hold attention becuase there were very few alternatives 

>>I didn't say the fans don't deserve a new series, even thought I actually DO believe that, so thank you. What I said is that the fans aren't READY for a new series. And, frankly, we're not. The behaviors on this board are all you need to look at to see that. That's not elitism...that's genuine dislike. I simply don't like the type of fans who have poisoned the franchise.

you can call it whatever but when you think your better than the rest of the fans that elitism

>>Next time you accuse someone of being elitist, it would be best if your very next statement wasn't a stuck-up, agist, pile of crap like"The new kind of fan has a short attention span"

again its a comment about how quickly current things move and im not the one spitting in the face of the fans telling them they arent good enough to even watch their favorite show on tv

>>But then again, this comes from a guy who thinks that "new technology" is a key element of Star Trek's future success, so what else should be expected?

no i said that not making new technology would cause it not be taken seriously. the key to success is good acting and writing as with most every tv show and movie

>>Do you REALLY think that if the studios and networks thought a series would be successful, we wouldn't have one? Of course they would. It's all about $$$$$$$. They KNOW that now is not the time.

they wont becuase CBS is about playing it safe which is why cbs only has reality tv and crime dramas on their line up. every new fall show on every broadcast station failed this year becuase it was just remade junk, the time for something different is now.

Whew - getting heated in here.

The original thread dealt with the 09 movie. The movie was made for general audiences. Trek fans can either consider themselves a part of the general audience (which I do) or they can consider themselves a "Trekker" or not part of the general audience. They may not consider themselves as better - just not the same as the average moviegoer.

If you were a general moviegoer, you likely enjoyed the film. I did, and so did many others on this site.

If you were a "Trekkie" you likely enjoyed the film, which kept faithful to the personalities of the original characters, and kept 85% of the original elements, with the final 15% being sacrificed for the benefit of general audiences.

However in both groups there are exceptions. Some of the average moviegoers did not enjoy the film.
A larger subset of the "Trekkies" did not like the film. A small percentage of those did not enjoy it because it was not made for them.

If the movie had been made for that small subset it would have failed. Star Trek films are meant to entertain large audiences, and to generate new fans. The 09 movie did both. If there is ever an arthouse Star Trek film designed for the small subset of fans who actively hate on the 09 film because it was not up to their standards, well it might do well if it goes directly to DVD.

People - including me - tend to think because they feel a certain way about a movie or book or CD - that movie or book or CD will not or should not succeed, or is not worth anyones time, or is a "franchise killer".

Star Trek will likely do just fine, it has survived and will survive. JJ will make another movie - the small subset will hate on it - and eventually when the networks figure out how to make money on TV again, there will be another TV series.

If you don't like the movie, state your view. But don't get caught in the trap that because YOU did not like it movie was the end of all Trek.

Seeing as millions eagerly watched it, and millions will eagerly watch the new one (including the haters), and millions of people still spend money on Star Trek themed material, things will be just fine.

 

Although I agree that out is not an "11". But how many alternative dimensions did we see in the show? Remember that episode where worf was dimension jumping and there were a gazillion enterprises (one blew up from borg damage it was so coooool!!), well if star trek has established so many alternate dimensions as canon, how is this one any less canon? Hate on it all you want, but at least understand the alternate dimension bit.[/quote]

There was no film ever made in alternate timeline. And if it was from alternate timeline, there should be something to tell you that. It acts as regular ST (at least it tries to), yet the story is complete nonsense. And it makes no sense to put film in alternate timeline without any clue to it. In EVERY episode, which was from alternate timeline, it was clearly stated, that it is one. Since it was not stated here, it's from basic timeline and therefore complete nonsense

It is interesting how the original Trek keeps getting revisited though. It speaks volumes for its appeal and longevity. We have had ST:TOS that started it all - then ST:TAS which took us into cartoon Trek, now ST:TNV (the new version) reprising Kirk & Co. with different actors just as the fan-based efforts of James Cawley have done in ST:NewVoyages on the internet. original Trek - live long, and prosper!

This is a bunch of rationalizing and BS, my friend.

If you can show me where I said I was "better than other fans" or that the fans "aren't good enought to have a new show," I'll be impressed. I think you're reading what you want into something simply because you disagree with my opinion. Odd, but not unexpected.

>>This is a bunch of rationalizing and BS, my friend.

i believe its called truth

>>If you can show me where I said I was "better than other fans"

do you consider yourself one of the fans who "poisoned the franchise" ? If you do then i apologize i misunderstood. If you dont then you would obviously think you were a better fan than them.

>>or that the fans "aren't good enought to have a new show,

you said this
"I didn't say the fans don't deserve a new series, even thought I actually DO believe that"

you said it in another thread and i threw it into this one, id pull it up but since the forums dont have a search feature it would take hours

Well, at the least the movie gets people talking, Enterprise too!

Vger, Rugby, I would love to see a formal debate between you 2 at a convention. It would be very entertaining and thought-provoking.