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Star Trek Philosophy

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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POSTS: 46330

Report this Dec. 21 2010, 6:44 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>i can't believe you brought up Ayn Rand in this thread !!!!

>"i enjoyed reading very much until i read this, "Atlas Shrugged" and now i never want to read another book ever again!" (paraphrased) LOL - tell me where that quote is from and you get a pizza roll

>Ayn Rand's philosphy was based on objectivism, and the very premise of objectivism is flawed in that nothing exists in an isolated system, nothing.

>as for people supporting slackers, 2/3rds of all billionaires (as of 2000) were BORN that way. tell me what they did to earn a billion dollars? aren't we supporting them by giving them stuff to do while they spend the money they did nothing to get? who is the real slacker, the rich man that starts a war or the poor man who fights it?

>
okay, okay - I'm NOT a fan of Ayn Rand and objectivism, but I do agree with this book and how government control screws things up and will end up destroying what individuals built.  She makes it easy to understand the ramifications - even Keynesians can understand it.  My first thought was suggesting The Wealth of Nations, but too many people get lost there.


As for 2/3rds of all billionaires being born into wealth - so what? Why can't someone leave their money and businesses to their kids? That also means 1/3 have earned it themselves - which is a lot more than historically possible where the only wealth was in the royal families and inherited.  Also look at how many millionaires have come into existence.  And aside from money, look at the choice in products and how they keep getting better and better.


I'm not sure what you mean by "aren't we supporting them by giving them stuff to do" ? It doesn't matter to me if they do anything or not - as long as they're responsible for meeting their needs.


As a side note - look at what many of these billionaires are doing - they're CHOOSING to donate most of their money to help others. (Think Bill Gates & Jon Huntsman - neither came from billionaire families and majority of money is going to cure disease.) Of course, what they do with their own money is their business - keep it, invest it, donate it - their choice.


Tureaz'47

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POSTS: 2605

Report this Dec. 21 2010, 8:47 pm

Quote: catwixen @ Dec. 13 2010, 5:42 am

I am an idealist. I really do believe we could have a society with no bigotry one day. With open discussions on topics such as euthanasia, which was discussed in the last episode of Voyager that I watched.

Maybe in Star Trek they simplify matters too much? Maybe the poverty and/or religious struggles we have today complicate matters in a way that would not happen in a more ideal society?

Just wondering if people here think it might ever be possible...this seemingly near Utopic lifestyle. I know there are still battles within Star Trek. But they do not seem to be bigoted in nature...unless one is a klingon lol



An idealist with a view that yours is correct when others may not be. Learn from the practice of "Empathy." Get to know what it means and perhaps you will get the "ST" philosophy. Nothing is perfect because people aren't. Being desensitised to the current society status, isn't necessarily correct and we as a human race must realise that the life of being must advance and will. Motive is everything, it will form where a person may go and is going too.

It's strange, being a catalyst for things that move outside.

Trau

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POSTS: 322

Report this Jan. 05 2011, 8:21 am

Quote: ___Lucifer___ @ Dec. 13 2010, 7:30 pm

idealistic communist hippie peaceniks

That pretty much says it all.

"Savour the fruit of life my young friends, it has a sweet taste when it is fresh from the vine, but don't live too long - the taste becomes bitter after a time " DaHar master Kor 'Star Trek Deep Space Nine : Once More Onto The Breach'

miklamar

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Report this Jan. 05 2011, 9:20 pm

It would be nice to see a world in which everyone's needs are met, through technocracy (such as automated production lines). If everyone had everything he/she needed, there were be no crime, except crimes of passion. It would also be nice if everyone could strive to reach their highest potential and be both encouraged and enabled to do so.
I think that at first, humans would feel good about not having to earn money to provide for necessities. Then, there would probably be a period in which people would become lazy and not really strive to accomplish anything. Hopefully, they would then get bored with doing nothing and begin to achieve something positive with their lives.
The Federation seems to provide for everyone's needs, until the Dominion War and Borg invasions devastate many planets and shortages become dire. Then, everyone has to make renewed efforts to return to the prewar days of peace and prosperity.
In the 20th and 21st centuries, just think what the human race could have achieved on Earth, if we hadn't suffered through two world wars, Korea, Vietnam, and now the war against terrorism. If we hadn't lost so many good and talented people--especially in WWI--we might have lived in an almost utopian world before the year 2000. Now, look at the state we're in. War is always counterproductive--an enormous waste of lives and resources, which sets back the course of potential human development. If we could achieve a peaceful, Star Trek like world, just think of how much better life would be for everyone!

Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

Beershark

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Report this Jan. 07 2011, 12:32 am

Given that human nature will inevitably get in the way, I would be inclined to say if not impossible then highly improbable. Of course I do not believe that absolves us from the responsibility of trying to get there. Any and every step towards that goal is a step in the right direction.

CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

miklamar

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POSTS: 2161

Report this Jan. 08 2011, 12:33 am

Quote: Beershark @ Jan. 07 2011, 12:32 am

>Given that human nature will inevitably get in the way, I would be inclined to say if not impossible then highly improbable. Of course I do not believe that absolves us from the responsibility of trying to get there. Any and every step towards that goal is a step in the right direction.
I like your attitude, Beershark--especially your last sentence. I used to think that life was a series of destinations. But, the more I think about it, the more it seems that, as the proverb allegedly says, the journey is the important part. What we do on the road to where we are going shows our character and points us in the way we will proceed. Purposefully taking steps in the right direction, as you say, are good, because our actions shape our "destiny."


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

OtakuJo

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Report this Jan. 08 2011, 1:31 pm

I honestly think it is something in between "wonderful" and "bullshit".

It forms the seeds of a good philosophy -- but could it be reached and sustained in practice?? Honestly, I think in part, it could. But to subscribe entirely to that philosophy, and put the whole thing in to practice, I do not think that is possible.

And the Star Trek philosophy itself is not unproblematic, particularly in its attitude to those who may not subscribe to such ideals. Preaches tolerance, but beneath the surface is in fact remarkably intolerant.

The theoretical seeds are there, for a good philosophy AS A STARTING POINT. But I don't think that people could go all the way with that philosophy -- and I do not think that they should.

Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

SSFPhoenix

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Report this Jan. 08 2011, 6:36 pm

I believe we would all be better off if we were like the Federation, but that probably won't happen anytime soon.

Let there be pants.

Trau

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POSTS: 322

Report this Jan. 27 2011, 1:59 pm

It's all wishfull thinking just like any form of fantasy, you only have trouble when you start to believe fantasy is a possible reality.

"Savour the fruit of life my young friends, it has a sweet taste when it is fresh from the vine, but don't live too long - the taste becomes bitter after a time " DaHar master Kor 'Star Trek Deep Space Nine : Once More Onto The Breach'

TyrThunor

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POSTS: 75

Report this Feb. 06 2011, 8:28 pm

Alot of people I think misunderstand what the federation would be. There would be no need to change human nature. The idea would be that everything would voluntary, with production of the necessities food/clothing shelter to be done by machines.
Greedy people generally want status and power, there would be no change, the only difference is that they would be rewarded with position, and rank, instead, of a $ attached to their name.
If you think of people as animals(which we are), we collect resources(money) first for survival/family, than for entertainment/prestige. If the first is in ample supply, people must gain the second part through civic service.

Of course some people will always feel the need to rebel, and they simply leave federation space, or get wiped out by their counterparts who value law and order

Sora

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Report this Feb. 06 2011, 9:50 pm

I think it's 50/50. Some of it is possible, and some of it is idealistic crap as the original poster so worded it.

Live Long and Prosper

TyrThunor

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POSTS: 75

Report this Feb. 06 2011, 9:56 pm

I'd have to agree somewhat. In the sense what is said is BS no way it all could be true. What were shown is a high ranking officers prespective, obviously those of high rank in any society are the most idealistic/happy with how things are.

However the lack of money etc, I think is highly possible.

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