rocketscientist GROUP: Members POSTS: 10002  |
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Dec. 26 2010, 9:12 am
Quote: UNTRugby @ Dec. 09 2010, 10:40 am | >>But the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
thats a flawed vulcan philosophic that starfleet rarely follows
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What's flawed about it? It seems logical to me.
>>Realistically, who wouldn't plant the virus? The deaths of worlds and acts of genocide committed by the borg after that point were on picard's head.
if put in modern day context could you kill an entire race of people becuase of what MIGHT happen in the future? What happened after is in no way picards fault, the borg make their own choices. If you start assigning secondary blame like that then you could conclude that its Zefram Cochrane's fault that the borg are still alive.
That argument doesn't really work here, because Picad knew, better than anyone perhaps, what the Borg do: they rape and destroy other civilizations. He knew what would likely happen if he let Hugh go without the virus and yet he did it anyway.
Kirk definitely wouldn't have made that decision. As evident from A Private Little War, The City on the Edge of Forever, and other episodes, he was able to make difficult decisions in defense of the Federation and others. Why? Because, unlike Picard, Kirk admitted he was a soldier and not much of a diplomat. For some crazy reason, Picard forgot that he was a SF officer in I Borg.
KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!
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rocketscientist GROUP: Members POSTS: 10002 |
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Dec. 26 2010, 9:21 am
Quote: jesusismyadvocate @ Dec. 09 2010, 5:33 pm | Quote: /view_profile/ @ | Quote: /view_profile/ @ | Quote: /view_profile/ @ | I do really like Picard but prefer Kirk's passion for his ship, his work, his crew.
I don't like that Picard let Hugh go and didn't attempt to kill the Borg with the virus. Just how many civilsations went down to the Borg after that in both the Apha and Delta quadrants?
Does he have those lives on his conscience. |
do you really think the decision was wrong? should the ends justify the means? the definite genocide of one race to prevent the possible genocide of other races |
Yes definitely. It was Picard's duty to kill them off. Maybe its an unpleasant duty and thats why Picard fails in this. Archer would have. Sisko would have. Maybe Janeway and Kirk. I saw the later episode when Lore joined up with the Borg and the resultant death of another couple of worlds. It was like ho hum to the TNG crew. They should of ensured Lore was killed off too and maybe another 10 billion entities would still be alive with their own thoughts and desires.
If I became part of the Borg I would want someone to kill me before I killed other sentient creatures and stole their thoughts, dreams and desires.
If you could stop the Borg and reason with them or harness a truce then maybe but thats not going to happen. Did you see the VOY episodes where a civilisation lived underground to avoid the Borg, where they annexed countless billions of people in front of 7of9, where 7of9 was haunted by the voices of the assimilated. Every day the Borg continue unchecked millions of lives are lost. I don't say Picard is responsible for this. The virusy thing mightened of work but he should have tried.
If Earth faced assimilation and the only weapon left was the virus, do you think Picard shuld hestitate about killing off the Borg. |
I agree with you for the most part. Picard, having once been assimilated, should have known what the Borg were, what they have done and what they were planning to do. He was the most qualified to pass judgment on them (save God himself). One can only ponder what made him not take advantage of such an incredible opportunity to rid the galaxy of such an evil.
I personally blame the writers for that mishap. That ought not have been something that they overlooked. However the writers hadn't fully developed what the Borg were at that point. Remember that Guinan said that maybe some day they could make peace with the Borg. It's only in VOY and FC that we see the extent of the Borg's villainy in the galaxy. Think of what we saw in Best of Both Worlds. That is the first time assimilation was mentioned and even at that point it appeared that they grew their drones as a rule, rather than assimilated them. Picard seemed the exception in this. It's only in VOY and FC that we see that assimilation was widely used. So I think the writers were still figuring out the Borg themselves. At such a tender point in their development as a villian, it might have been inappropriate for a moral, Starfleet, captian to commit genocide to get rid of them. Whereas, when the Borg were more fully developed as a villian it would be more appropriate for a Starfleet captain to make that decision. |
I don't think that factored into it at all. Rather, I think it was just that the writers wanted to take the "high road," with Picard, or at least how they perceived it. That is, that since he was a perfect GR liberal human that he would decide against destroying the Borg, irrespective of their malevolence or nature, even if it meant the deaths of other worlds, Federation citizens, etc. That just did not make one bit of sense to me, but again, I blame it on Berman and Pillar's adherence to GR's perfect people edict for TNG.
I would think that, after reading many of his interviews, that Ron Moore likely would've strongly objected to Picard's decision in I Borg.
KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!
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AtoZ2 GROUP: Members POSTS: 1293 |
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Dec. 26 2010, 11:33 am
KIRK, except no other.
"Thank Pitch Forks and Pointed Ears"
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captbates GROUP: Members POSTS: 12614 |
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Dec. 26 2010, 12:21 pm
Picard is great in his own style, but Kirk was just perfect. 
If you can read this it means I've got something to work on here.
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Johnny Sage GROUP: Members POSTS: 3 |
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Dec. 26 2010, 12:29 pm
Picard was an excellent Captain, and I would have been proud to be a memeber of his crew, however I dont believe there is any doubt that he will always be number 2. Kirk was a Captain during a wilder and far more dangerous time. The universe was still vastly unexplored, there was constant threat from both the Romulans and the Klingons, and the rules of the federation were still be written. Kirk had to make harder decisions with less guidance, not to mention less luxuries (he didnt know what the #$%@ a holodeck was) In Star Trek Generations, Picard followed Kirks lead, there is a reason for that. |
zapp77 GROUP: Members POSTS: 103 |
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Dec. 26 2010, 11:50 pm
I don't think either one was any better then the other. They came from 2 different times and were both excellent at what they did, they both got the job done for sure.
Oh Snap.
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HaventGotALife GROUP: Members POSTS: 760 |
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Dec. 27 2010, 1:44 am
I think Kirk was more decisive than Picard. Picard only ran into lifeforms he could deal with directly, communicate with. Kirk dealt with the unknown and they explored the burden of command, especially early in the first season of TOS. Shatner is a much better, more commanding in his performance.
Its stories are about the depth and complexity of human interaction and relationships. It studies us and asks us to look within ourselves, to relate, to ask how would we respond to all that is in their world?
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