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What are your thoughts about Insurrection?

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Nov. 09 2010, 6:52 pm

I understand that Insurrection is one of the most hated Star Trek films, but what I can understand, is why?


I agree that it definitely isn't as fast paced as some of the others, but the storyline is really awesome, and the film does have some action, not as much as Star Trek II, or VI or First Contact, but I really feel it's a strong film.


Plus after watching all 10 theatrical Trailers for all 10 films, the trailer for Insurrection I think is the best one out of all of them. It really makes the film look exciting and fantastic.

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Nov. 09 2010, 7:29 pm

Insurrection is my favorite TNG film, and one my favored Star Trek films overall (tied in 3rd place with The Undiscovered Country). I was happy with it being slower paced, and it had wonderful character moments. The scene in Picard's Ready Room between Picard and Dougherty echoed the television Picard, which the films up to that point weren't strong on.


Insurrection has spawned previous debate. Some have minor complaints about Picard and Data singing, despite previous occurances... Picard sang in "Disaster". I can't think of an occasion for Data singing prior to INS, but Lore sang a little diddy in "Brothers". Worf's excuse for being present was admittedly glossed over and not as strong as it was in FC, but it wouldn't be TNG without the whole family together. Another complaint was that the film felt like a two part episode. I don't particularly mind this, because many of the shows seemed like movies.


A few months ago, Michael Piller wrote a book for aspiring writers documenting the development of INS. It was a great read.

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Nov. 09 2010, 7:59 pm

Quote: lostshaker @ Nov. 09 2010, 7:29 pm

Insurrection is my favorite TNG film, and one my favored Star Trek films overall (tied in 3rd place with The Undiscovered Countty). I was happy with it being slower paced, and it had wonderful character moments. The scene in Picard's Ready Room between Picard and Dougherty echoed the television Picard, which the films up to that point weren't strong on.

Insurrection has spawned previous debate. Some have minor complaints about Picard and Data singing, despite previous occurances... Picard sang in "Disaster". I can't think of an occasion for Data singing prior to INS, but Lore sang a little diddy in "Brothers". Worf's excuse for being present was admittedly glossed over and not as strong as it was in FC, but it wouldn't be TNG without the whole family together. Another complaint was that the film felt like a two part episode. I don't particularly mind this, because many of the shows seemed like movies.

A few months ago, Michael Piller wrote a book for aspiring writers documenting the development of INS. It was a great read.



That's awesome that you love Insurrection, I think it's a great movie. And something else I love about it, is that it gives a feel of what's going on in the Trek universe at that time in DS9, and uses some of the Voyager sets as well.

And about Worf, I was happier with him in Insurrection than I was with First Contact, because with Insurrection, they make reference to him being on leave from DS9 and stuff like that. Which makes sense because if you watch Season 7 of DS9, you'll see that Worf is absent alot in the earlier part of the season which is when Insurrection is happening.

And in First Contact, yeah he's there with the Defiant, which makes no sense. Because first off, there's no mention in DS9 that Captain Sisko gave Worf Command of The Defiant to engage The Borg, and also when you see Worf on the Defiant, there's no other regular Defiant crewmembers on board. All redshirts essentially.

Then after that, there's no mention to DS9, there's no mention to Captain Sisko in the movie or anything. So I felt Insurrection gave the best explanation out of all of them.

Live Long and Prosper

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Nov. 09 2010, 8:51 pm

INS did a good job of dropping a landscape with regard to the Dominion War, etc... as you pointed out, Sora. I agree and disagree with you about Worf's presence in FC. I thought Worf commanding the Defiant was a brilliant means of bringing him in, although it would have been nice to have a cameo appearance from Chief O'Brien. He wouldn't have been a foreign addition to TNG, having originally been established in the series. One of my problems with FC was the pacing at the film's opening. I would've liked another ten or fifteen minutes of buildup and/or inclusive elements, where like you suggest, Worf is given or ordered to take command by either Sisko or Starfleet.


DS9 briefly mentioned the Borg conflict in the episode "In Purgatory's Shadow", but I was disappointed they never made a mention or even briefly showed the Defiant being repaired. 


Returning to INS, despite not having the 1701-D, the movie played like the most classic of TNG and Star Trek stories. I love the movie. In fact, I'm getting worked up to watch it.

2takesfrakes

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POSTS: 3683

Report this Nov. 09 2010, 8:59 pm

INSURRECTION has a lot going for it!
Like STAR TREK II, it touches on many
aspects, very directly - like aging,
the needs of the many, fear, vengeance ...
and does it in such a way where it does
not resemble Wrath of Khan, or anything
else. It's got a lot of action and humor.
It's a great offering by director Frakes
and the cast. I think it's wonderful ...

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Nov. 10 2010, 5:05 am

I think it was a good story and movie but poorly executed in places. For one, it developed too fast, leaving me with the need to catch up and a little confused when it got to the meat of the movie. Also, I thought the humor was overdone, especially the singing with data and him being a flotation device (though the firm breasts bit was hilarious and well done). It provided good lessons and was very introspective with good action in between but, like nemesis, the cheesy bits were overdone and it had zero appeal to people who didn't watch tng. I still love it though.

Can't wait to see vger weigh in on this.

AtoZ2

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POSTS: 1297

Report this Nov. 11 2010, 5:45 am

it sucked...bad stoy, terriable acting, less then the worst TNG episode (and there's so many to choose from)
Surprised this TV movie didn't end TNG film series...they certainly succeded with the next excuse of a film.

"Thank Pitch Forks and Pointed Ears"

Jason222

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POSTS: 715

Report this Nov. 11 2010, 6:35 pm

I think brough Back Tash Yar in that movie.

Jason222

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 715

Report this Nov. 11 2010, 6:35 pm

I think brough Back Tash Yar in that movie.That planet able bring people back near dead I see writen have bring back some long dead.

KLINGONDOG

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POSTS: 533

Report this Nov. 11 2010, 7:31 pm

Leave Insurrection alone, it is a great TNG story.

bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'.

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Nov. 12 2010, 5:15 am

A valid point Servalanfan. Hadn't considered that. You just made me mad at picard for having a double standard. Guess he wasn't attracted to any of the women on the other planet.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 12 2010, 7:34 am

The bottom line is this:

Insurrection had no drama. It had nothing to care about. There was nothing in the script that created any kind of genuine emotion or tension. It was just "there." It was literally (as cliche as it sounds) about as good as a mediocre 1-hour episode from Season 6 or 7.

When a major Hollywood production falls flat in almost every category when compared to the majority of TNG's 2-hour episodes (and most of the 1-hour episodes), there's a significant problem.

I view INS as a microcosm of all the little things about TNG that annoyed me (and I LOVED TNG):

Data being cute
Little kids
Cheesy humor
Preachy, self-righteous speeches from Picard

When you heap that on top of "A British Tar," the mambo, Worf's pimples, a tolken and meaningless space battle (literally, a space battle for the sake of having a space battle), and a villian that is absolutely forgettable, you have a very weak and unsatisfying Star Trek motion picture.

I don't hate INS. As a matter of fact, I saw it 4 times in the theater (including opening night) and I own in on both Blu Ray and DVD.

But, it is by far the weakest of the Star Trek films in my book.

I AM KEE-ROCK!!

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Nov. 12 2010, 10:26 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>I dislike this movie not because of its little flaws like having Worf there, the stupidity of assigning Data to the hidden scientists because all the Star Trek movies have these kinds of inconsistencies. It was the story. Picard has seen many more injustices in his career than those dealt out to the 'spoilt' inhabitants of this planets. Yes the 600 or so inhabitants of this planet have access to potentially unlimited lifespan and Picard risks his crew and his career to defend these inhabitants to keep the secret to themselves, to not break the 'Prime Directive' or to break the 'Prime Directive' I'm not sure.
The circumstances were different for the Baku and the one in "Homeward". Those in "Homeward" weren't warp capable, an arguably subjective technological plateau that governs the interaction among cooperative and adherent species. The Baku, however, had warp capability and Picard was made aware of this. Picard's original contact was based on the retrieval of the Son'a and Starfleet Officers. It wasn't until much later that Picard decided to interfere, and that was because - as Picard noted - Admiral Dougherty had already brought the Federation into the middle of a blood feud. Thus, Picard had a responsibility to extricate the Federation and return the planet and the situation to a status quo. It's analogous to Kirk's actions in "A Private Little War". The only difference is that Picard fought for the inhabitants himself, rather than act as an arms dealer.


 


Second, Picard didn't defend the inhabitants "to keep the secret to themselves,". During the movie, Picard even stated, "...If a court-martial is the only way to let the people of the Federation know what is happening here, I welcome it." Picard wanted the majority of Federation citizens to know the situation. So while Picard was fighting for the Prime Directive, he was ultimately fighting for democracy and against authoritarianism. There was a small number of individuals that were attempting to concentrate power in the hands of a few. Dougherty even suggested as much by stating the following analogies, "...On earth, petroleum turned petty thugs into world leaders. Warp drive transformed Romulan thugs into an Empire." This was reaffirmed by Picard, at the movie's end, when he stated, "...these are perilous times for the Federation. I can't abandon it to people who would threaten everything that I've spent my lifetime defending." To that end, I question both the source and information provided to the Federation Council to illicit an abandonment of the Prime Directive, as Dougherty so noted. Otherwise, Dougherty wouldn't have needed to authorize Ru'Afo to send ships after Riker.


A similar real world parallel is taking place today. Industrialized agribusiness had made the promise of ending world hunger with its ability to mass produce food product. However, world hunger has been continuously proven to be caused not by lack of food, but by lack of access to food. In fact, most of the people starving today were at one point farmers. The governments of these third world countries, having borrowed large sums from the National Monetary fund and the World bank, have to pay back these loans. The governments kick farmers off their land to create industrialized (monocropping) product for export (The Future of Food). The irony is that which advertises itself to be the end of world hunger has only increased it. The parallel to Insurrection is how the realities and costs of Industrialized Food aren't heavily advertised. Industry doesn't want the information revealed, because of a possible ethical and moral backlash. The cynical person will argue that the average American will still buy cheap food, but I certainly don't. And Star Trek's point is that the average human has evolved to be intolerant of abuses.

lostshaker

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POSTS: 2293

Report this Nov. 12 2010, 10:33 am

Quote: Vger23 @ Nov. 12 2010, 7:34 am

Data being cute Preachy, self-righteous speeches from Picard

Those are some of my favorite elements of TNG, and one of the reasons I think INS is the best of the TNG films.

iBorg13

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POSTS: 1944

Report this Nov. 12 2010, 3:26 pm

Insurrection isn't my favourite movie, but I don't hate it. It would actually probably come about 6th out of 11 movies. Which isn't too bad really.


"In the event of a water landing, I have been designed to serve as a flotation device." - Data, INS - LOL

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