ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Typhon Pact

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 21 2011, 3:06 pm

What I liked best about 2 is how it gave a new viewpoint for approaching the prime directive and the paranoid view of mammals the Gorn have that mirrored our own paranoia.

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 21 2011, 8:24 pm

Mr David George-
In case you visit this thread again, I wanted you to know that I changed my review on Amazon and included your comments posted here so that hopefully those who agreed with me will be able to understand what was REALLY going on with Sisko and be able to have a more fair opinion of Rough Beasts of Empire. I also added a star. You probably don't care but I felt it was the only fair thing to do since I clearly misjudged both you and Sisko.

DavidRGeorgeIII

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 31

Report this Jan. 22 2011, 5:48 pm

CO_Fowler posted:


>> And a huge welcome to Mr. Geroge!  It's so great that the writers come here and interact with us readers  Too cool!! <<


Thanks, but please call me David. Mr. George was my grandfather!


 


Matthias Russell posted: 


 >> Wow, excellent and convincing counterpoints . . . uh . . . David.  I understand your approach now and can understand Sisko's actions as not necessarily an act of cowardice but a painful act of sacrifice to protect ones he loved and himself from more loss. I can also empathize with him now. I completely misjudged your intent. I will have to try to append my amazon review. <<


I'm glad you found my points compelling, but really, the novel should stand on its own. But I do appreciate you being open to another view of events and characterization.


 


Matthias Russell posted: 


>> BTW, I don't think I can call you David. <<


Ah, but you must.


 


Lieutenant_Jedi asked: 


>> Why kill of Sisko's father? I know he was getting a little long in the tooth, but he seemed to die suddenly and with little opportunity to send off his character properly (you know with the death bed speech). <<


Well, the death of Joseph Sisko helped establish Ben's mind-set, and prompted him to concretize his fears about the warning he had received from the Prophets. Also, regarding sending off the character "properly," I would argue that deathbed speeches and the like can be both very contrived and very unsatisfying from a literary standpoint. The truth is that people die all the time with no opportunity to bid their loved ones farewell. The abruptness of Joseph Sisko's demise further pushed Ben into a saddened, depressed emotional state, which served the story.


 


Lieutenant_Jedi also wanted to know:


>> How did you choose which faction of the Romulan Empire would win? What made you feel Tal' Aura was more skilled politically than Donatra? <<


Interesting questions. When I knew that I would be returning the Romulan Empire to its undivided whole, I needed to determine who would win, and who would lead the new state. Knowing the machinations that often pervade Romulan politics, I settled on telling a political tale, and to make it interesting, I crafted a tale that would allow for quite a few different individuals to end up leading the Empire. It seemed to me that some of the previous Romulan praetors had been mustache-twirling bad guys, without much compelling motivation. I decided on a more reasonable figure, which I thought would provide the opportunity for more interesting narratives later. In putting together the story, I really let the existing characters, as well as the existing situations, carry me through the events that ultimately brought the Empire back to a single entity. Sometimes, you have to listen to your characters. I also wouldn't say that Tal'Aura was necessarily better skilled politically than Donatra, only that she was more duplicitous and held more resources.


 


Matthias Russell surmised:


>> I figured Sisko's father died because the actor did. I liked the way the death was written. Sisko comes home expecting to see his dad in improving health only to be told by someone that he barely knows that his father has died. He built you up for a shock and that shock added to Sisko's level of tragedy that broke him. <<


He died because his death served the story, and he died in the manner he did because, yes, it added to Ben's level of tragedy.


 


Matthias Russell asked:


>> Any chance in getting a few more Davids at Tampa Vulcon next month? The proximity and timing is perfect for seeing one of the last shuttle launches. Busch Gardens for the family. And there is a shop nearby that has the best cupcakes you will have in your life! <<


I love to attend conventions, and to chat with fans and readers about the books and writing. That said, if you want a particular guest at a particular convention, your best bet is to contact the convention organizer and make that suggestion. I am always happy to receive an invitation to attend a con.


 


Matthias Russell also posted:


>> In case you visit this thread again, I wanted you to know that I changed my review on Amazon and included your comments posted here so that hopefully those who agreed with me will be able to understand what was REALLY going on with Sisko and be able to have a more fair opinion of Rough Beasts of Empire. I also added a star. You probably don't care but I felt it was the only fair thing to do since I clearly misjudged both you and Sisko. <<


While I do appreciate the revised rating, I'm not particularly happy to be quoted so much in a review. From my perspective, my novel should stand on its own, and I'm not in the business of trying to convince readers why they should like my work. People who dislike my work are perfectly entitled to their opinions, and such opinions don't bother me. I was responding here to specific comments posted on a message board, not in a review setting. But as I said, I appreciate your intentions.


Regards, David

CO_Fowler

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5508

Report this Jan. 23 2011, 2:14 pm

ARGH!!  I had a reply and my thoughts on the book, all but the very first bit, where I was going to quote David George, is all gone!!  Usually I copy what I write, but apparently it's gone  GRRRRRRR


I'll post again after I re-write everything


*Edited to add the above*


 


**Edited to say** Yea! It took me a few tries, but it is finally posted below!! 


R.I.P. My sweet Casey Bug. Mommy will see you again one day :`o( 18DEC01-24SEP11 / "Don't try to win over the haters. You're not the jackass whisperer."~Scott Stratten /It's a lot like nuts and bolts-if the rider's nuts, the horse bolts! ~Nicholas Evans /IDIC-Infinite Diversity Infinite Combination/Sgt Esterhaus: Hey, let's be careful out there!/4000/ To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone

CO_Fowler

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5508

Report this Jan. 23 2011, 2:18 pm

Sorry, dbl post.


See if it takes this time


 


DavidRGeorgeIII
GROUP: Members
POSTS: 4
  Report this Jan. 22 2011, 6:48 pm
CO_Fowler posted:
 
>> And a huge welcome to Mr. Geroge!  It's so great that the writers come here and interact with us readers  Too cool!! <<
 
Thanks, but please call me David. Mr. George was my grandfather!

^^ makes me think of my dad.  He's 91 and when someone calls him 'Mr' he replies with, "I'm Byron, my dad was Mr."    Maybe we could reach a comprimise in how to address you, may I call you David G.?  Or D.G.?  I need a way to know which 'David' I'm talking to LOL  At least in my mind.  Blame it on C.R.S. or C.R.A.F.T. 
Anyhoo, onto my post:
I finished the book a few days ago but finally have time to post about it
 
1. Sisko leaving Kasidy and his family:
At first I wasn't too sure about Sisko leaving his family, but I could see after his talk with Kira that he was having a crisis of faith, so to speak, and was maybe even 'reading' into the prophecy a bit with the things happening to his family and friends.  One of those things where way after the fact, when one looks back at things, the events that started the chain reaction can tend to be seen as nature taking its course - as in the death of Sisko's dad - &/or taking unrelated things and using them to 'make a point', like pointing a finger and saying, "See?!?!  I told you this would happen!!" - i.e. Vaughn's injury, even though it was from fighting the Borg Sisko decided to see it as a fulfiling of the prophecy.  Just my POV there
 
2. The Typhon Pact:
Interesting how this is turning out, just from what I've read in this book.  An interesting twist to have Alizome offer a handshake to Dor.  A seemingly innocent gessture with a not so innocent outcome, nice ^_^
 
3. The leadership change on Romulus:
I have to say that I was surprised when I read chapter 40   Even with the death of Rehaek by Selar I was still expecting for Durjik to possibly be moved up to Praetor so I was pleasantly surprised to see Gell Kamemor moved up   I did have the feeling that she would eventually move into the Senate seat regardless of Dur living or not.  So many ways having Dur vacate the seat could have popped up so she could then be made a Senator.  I think that she could make a good Praetor, at least the door is open for that.  It will be most interesting to see how the Typhon Pact will play out now.
 
4. Sisko finally realizing that the Prophets did not say that the prophecy meant that he couldn't have friends or family really.  Yes the prophecy was if he spent his life with Kas, he would know nothing but sorrow, but I hope Sisko realizes that his father was old, that even with the advanced medical knowlege no one can live forever.  But I anxuiously await how this prophecy and Sisko's life play out from here
 
5. It will be interesting, to say the least, with Sela becoming Chairman of the Tal Shiar.
All in all, a good read!  A thumbs up from me.


R.I.P. My sweet Casey Bug. Mommy will see you again one day :`o( 18DEC01-24SEP11 / "Don't try to win over the haters. You're not the jackass whisperer."~Scott Stratten /It's a lot like nuts and bolts-if the rider's nuts, the horse bolts! ~Nicholas Evans /IDIC-Infinite Diversity Infinite Combination/Sgt Esterhaus: Hey, let's be careful out there!/4000/ To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 23 2011, 3:34 pm

Both high profile Romulan deaths were interesting twists. I was hoping for Donatra, too. I'll give it to . . . Da . . . vid . . . for being good at the twist (in writing, but who knows, maybe dancing too). I'm not into Trek politics, but I'll admit to wanting to know what happens next. Sela became Praetor in STO after her predecessor disappeared(and I suspect was manipulated by the Iconians) so I'm hoping this will happen in the books too.

BTW, I removed the D.G. quotes from my amazon review out of respect.

Book 4 on Tuesday. Can't wait to see what the Enterprise does!

Your father still improving Fowler?

Lieutenant_Jedi

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1728

Report this Jan. 23 2011, 3:52 pm

Having Sela back in the story was an inspired decision. The depth of her cunning is rather amazing and it is nice to have a pure villian around.

"Can you detect midi - chlorians with a tricorder?"

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 23 2011, 3:57 pm

I loved how she thought her transmitter was broken cause she was never called for a job. I wish they would have put her in Nemesis. Denise Crosby needed to be in the send-off and the story was perfect for her.

Lieutenant_Jedi

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1728

Report this Jan. 23 2011, 4:05 pm

She could have easily been one of Shinzon's co-conspirators. Strange that they did not include her, she would have also made a great main villain.

"Can you detect midi - chlorians with a tricorder?"

CO_Fowler

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5508

Report this Jan. 24 2011, 5:10 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 23 2011, 3:34 pm

Both high profile Romulan deaths were interesting twists. I was hoping for Donatra, too. I'll give it to . . . Da . . . vid . . . for being good at the twist (in writing, but who knows, maybe dancing too). I'm not into Trek politics, but I'll admit to wanting to know what happens next. Sela became Praetor in STO after her predecessor disappeared(and I suspect was manipulated by the Iconians) so I'm hoping this will happen in the books too. BTW, I removed the D.G. quotes from my amazon review out of respect. Book 4 on Tuesday. Can't wait to see what the Enterprise does! Your father still improving Fowler?


Sort of. He's getting more onery, that's for sure ^_^ But his leg is swelling again. They might have to go back in and either balloon the artery again or place another stent.

We have a care conference tomorrow morning. I'm not sure what about now, I've gotten many mixed messages in the space of a week. Hopefully I'll get some answers tomorrow. So much fun being the only sibling nearby. ; o P`````

R.I.P. My sweet Casey Bug. Mommy will see you again one day :`o( 18DEC01-24SEP11 / "Don't try to win over the haters. You're not the jackass whisperer."~Scott Stratten /It's a lot like nuts and bolts-if the rider's nuts, the horse bolts! ~Nicholas Evans /IDIC-Infinite Diversity Infinite Combination/Sgt Esterhaus: Hey, let's be careful out there!/4000/ To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 24 2011, 6:54 pm

Well, hospitals are a great place to get caught up on your reading, lol.

eric.teall

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7

Report this Jan. 25 2011, 8:26 pm


David R George III:
I'm glad you found my points compelling, but really, the novel should stand on its own. But I do appreciate you being open to another view of events and characterization.



ET:  As another critical Amazon reviewer for this book, let me say that I completely agree with you, David, that the novel should stand on its own.  I appreciate your candor and attitude on this board, which I'm visiting after reading Matthias' revised review.


--------------------------------



David R George III:
Well, the death of Joseph Sisko helped establish Ben's mind-set, and prompted him to concretize his fears about the warning he had received from the Prophets. The abruptness of Joseph Sisko's demise further pushed Ben into a saddened, depressed emotional state, which served the story.



ET:  I felt this was well handled in the novel, and I really like that not every character is given a "TV moment."  This whole sequence really emphasized Ben's sense of lonliness and isolation.


--------------------------------



David R George III:
When I knew that I would be returning the Romulan Empire to its undivided whole, I needed to determine who would win, and who would lead the new state. Knowing the machinations that often pervade Romulan politics, I settled on telling a political tale, and to make it interesting, I crafted a tale that would allow for quite a few different individuals to end up leading the Empire.



ET:  FWIW, I found the political story interesting in its own right, but there's too much baggage with the whole situation for me to be able to enjoy this particular story at this juncture.  If the decision to reunify the Romulans was NOT yours, then I would humbly pass my complaints up the chain:  The Romulans were more interesting as a divided people.  It was so nice to have a status quo substantially different from the one we've been living with for twenty-plus years in real-world TNG fandom.  I also feel that Spock's part in the novel is disappointingly passive.  While I can accept something like Joseph Sisko's off-panel death as a necessary device to drive home Ben's isolation, relegating someone like Spock to a role that ends up being an extended cameo but is clearly supposed to be a main plot in the novel is disappointing.


--------------------------------



David R George III:
It seemed to me that some of the previous Romulan praetors had been mustache-twirling bad guys, without much compelling motivation. I decided on a more reasonable figure, which I thought would provide the opportunity for more interesting narratives later. In putting together the story, I really let the existing characters, as well as the existing situations, carry me through the events that ultimately brought the Empire back to a single entity. Sometimes, you have to listen to your characters. I also wouldn't say that Tal'Aura was necessarily better skilled politically than Donatra, only that she was more duplicitous and held more resources.



ET: I will say that the new Praetor has the potential to be a nice change from the "mustache twirlers" of the past, but I felt Donatra did, as well, and even Tal'Aura didn't strike me as two-dimensional.  I'm really disappointed that these two promising characters were eliminated.  Realistic?  Sure.  Dramatically interesting?  Not to me.


--------------------------------



David R George III:
From my perspective, my novel should stand on its own, and I'm not in the business of trying to convince readers why they should like my work. People who dislike my work are perfectly entitled to their opinions, and such opinions don't bother me.



ET:  While I (again) agree with your sentiments here, I really appreciate the time you've taken to engage with the fans.  Hey, it got me to post on startrek.com, and I've never done that before!

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 26 2011, 4:12 am

Thanks for joining us from Amazon, ET. I'm glad my revisions brought someone into the conversation. Davids Mack and George have been quite kind to converse with us and I'm glad you've found the discussion engaging. Thanks for the new perspective, also; I hope you will share in discussing book 4.

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 26 2011, 5:38 pm

[quote] >> Any chance in getting a few more Davids at Tampa Vulcon next month? The proximity and timing is perfect for seeing one of the last shuttle launches. Busch Gardens for the family. And there is a shop nearby that has the best cupcakes you will have in your life! <<


 


I love to attend conventions, and to chat with fans and readers about the books and writing. That said, if you want a particular guest at a particular convention, your best bet is to contact the convention organizer and make that suggestion. I am always happy to receive an invitation to attend a con. [quote]


 


I contacted the organizers of Tampa Vulcon.  They said they were out of funding for guest expenses so although they would love to invite more authors, they didn't want to insult them with an invitation without expenses covered.  So unless publishers cover travel or charging for sigs and photos covers expenses, I guess it isn't going to happen.  They did say if any other Trek authors would like to attend, they would provide exhibition space free of charge.  So I tried but guess it aint happening.  I assume Megacon would say the same; I imagine they paid premium funding to get Stan Lee and Shatner.


CO_Fowler

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5508

Report this Jan. 26 2011, 6:22 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 24 2011, 6:54 pm

Well, hospitals are a great place to get caught up on your reading, lol.


He's got a couple of books, but he's been watching a lot of the sports channels

R.I.P. My sweet Casey Bug. Mommy will see you again one day :`o( 18DEC01-24SEP11 / "Don't try to win over the haters. You're not the jackass whisperer."~Scott Stratten /It's a lot like nuts and bolts-if the rider's nuts, the horse bolts! ~Nicholas Evans /IDIC-Infinite Diversity Infinite Combination/Sgt Esterhaus: Hey, let's be careful out there!/4000/ To succeed in life, you need three things: a wishbone, a backbone and a funnybone

Recently logged in

Users browsing this forum: miklamar

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum