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Typhon Pact

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Oct. 25 2010, 6:26 pm

I figured I'd get us started on a thread about the new series.  I plan on downloading it to my Kindle first thing in the morning and being through it by the end of the week.  Anybody else been waiting for this?

BIGKEN

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POSTS: 13

Report this Oct. 26 2010, 9:26 am

Star Trek Typhon Pact is an intruiging read. David Mack is a brilliant Star Trek writer. It's he and some of the other author who should pen a new series and movie. Down with JJ Abrams! Bought it Monday and will probably finish it today. NOT gonna spoil anything but....new info on the Breen! Finally!

kmb035

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POSTS: 91

Report this Oct. 26 2010, 3:15 pm

I found this novel dry and far fetched as far as it being star trek. Its insulting to call it star trek it should be called another space story instead. Novels in trek are no fun because you have to read 7 novels before and then the characters are unrecognizable. I will never again read a post nemesis star trek book ever again. Down with typhon pact Hello TOS novels.

_Roadhog_

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POSTS: 2279

Report this Oct. 26 2010, 9:44 pm

kmb035


To each their own; if you fall behind on the literature, hit up Memory Alpha or Memory Beta.  Info there at your fingertips; sure you won't get the in-depth backstory, but you'll get up-to-date.  Or if you still feel behind, start with http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/The_Entropy_Effect

Ezrian_Bashirax

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POSTS: 20011

Report this Oct. 27 2010, 12:18 am

Dear David Mack, You are one of my top three favorite Star Trek authors. I have enjoyed every Star Trek novel you have written, including Zero Sum Game. That being said, David Mack, you and I have a problem.


You see, Julian Bashir is my favorite Star Trek character of all time. Of all time, David Mack. The events of the episode 'Chrysalis' made me hope that someday, if DS9 was a real place, Julian might be reunited with Sarina. I really felt for him when he had to let her go.


Now, onto ZSG. I loved it. It was action packed, James Bond meets Julian Bashir. The political parts were very well written, and not a single page made me pause. I absolutely loved it.


SPOILER ALERT. MAJOR SPOILER ALERT.


When Julian and Sarina fall into bed together, David Mack, you made my Trekkie dreams come true. Julian, who has endured so much hardship relationship-wise, had found his long lost true love. I was so very, very touched.


And then, David Mack, you managed to undo everything with the last two pages of your book. The last TWO PAGES, David Mack. You told me and all of your readers that Sarina really doesn't LOVE Julian. She is just using him, as Section 31 has done in the past. You set Julian, kind, sweet, dear, honorable and romantic Julian, up for future heartbreak and betrayal.


WHY, David Mack? Why would you do this? Why not add just one line, just one LINE, David Mack, explaining that though she is part of a plan for Julian, that she really does love him?


I want you to understand...I still respect you. You are still a great Trek author. I will still buy each one of your novels. I will absolutely enjoy them, as your Trek novels are always awesome. But you and I, David Mack, can never be friends. Kieth RA DeCandido and Peter David will eventually file restraining orders against me due to my rabid fandom of their Trek works, but you, David Mack...you will never know the pleasure. Sincerely, Ezrian_Bashirax


 


 


PS: Thank you for explaining the Breen. It was fantastically done.


PPS: What happened to Kira?

David Mack

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POSTS: 24

Report this Oct. 27 2010, 2:15 pm

First, my thanks to BIGKEN and Ezrian_Bashirax for the kind words. To kmb035, I'm sorry the book wasn't to your liking.


@Ezrian_Bashirax - I, too, was quite moved by the Julian/Sarina story, whose ending struck a chord with me in that it reminded me of events from my youth. I'm happy to hear their relationship as depicted in Zero Sum Game worked for you.


As to your subsequent comment --



"You told me and all of your readers that Sarina really doesn't LOVE Julian. She is just using him, as Section 31 has done in the past."



Did I? I'm not saying you're wrong ... but I'm not saying you're right, either. Re-read those final two pages. Consider every word Sarina says, as well as what she doesn't say. Also take into account that we're seeing that scene filtered through her point of view.


In my opinion, we don't really know what's going on. Maybe she is betraying him, maybe not. You want to know the really sick part?


Even I don't know the answer.


You see, I might not be the next writer to work on that series or with those characters. The editor who commissioned that book was  laid off before it was finished; the editor who saw it through production has left S&S; the next editor might have a new idea for the whole book line and its ongoing story arcs. I have no idea what will happen next, and I was asked not to tie the hands of the next author or editor.


I know what I think happened. Am I right? We'll just have to wait and see.


As for Kira... that will be answered in David R. George III's upcoming novel, Rough Beasts of Empire.


Ezrian_Bashirax

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Report this Oct. 27 2010, 11:57 pm

Quote: David Mack @ Oct. 27 2010, 2:15 pm

First, my thanks to BIGKEN and Ezrian_Bashirax for the kind words. To kmb035, I'm sorry the book wasn't to your liking.

@Ezrian_Bashirax - I, too, was quite moved by the Julian/Sarina story, whose ending struck a chord with me in that it reminded me of events from my youth. I'm happy to hear their relationship as depicted in Zero Sum Game worked for you.

As to your subsequent comment --

"You told me and all of your readers that Sarina really doesn't LOVE Julian. She is just using him, as Section 31 has done in the past."

Did I? I'm not saying you're wrong ... but I'm not saying you're right, either. Re-read those final two pages. Consider every word Sarina says, as well as what she doesn't say. Also take into account that we're seeing that scene filtered through her point of view.

In my opinion, we don't really know what's going on. Maybe she is betraying him, maybe not. You want to know the really sick part?

Even I don't know the answer.

You see, I might not be the next writer to work on that series or with those characters. The editor who commissioned that book was  laid off before it was finished; the editor who saw it through production has left S&S; the next editor might have a new idea for the whole book line and its ongoing story arcs. I have no idea what will happen next, and I was asked not to tie the hands of the next author or editor.

I know what I think happened. Am I right? We'll just have to wait and see.

As for Kira... that will be answered in David R. George III's upcoming novel, Rough Beasts of Empire.




This is exactly what I was hoping you would say. I really hope that in the end they really do live 'happily ever after'.

Again, excellent job. Thank you for answering my question about Kira, too, by the way.

You rock, dude.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Oct. 28 2010, 4:56 am

Mack, thanks for chiming in. It's nice to know our interest to your product is being seen. I hope your wife has since forgiven you for your time on the book, please give her our thanks.

I loooooooooooved the book. It was a wonderful extension of the Ezri/Aventine story and did a good job further establishing her command style. The 2 tricks she pulled with the Klingons was pure Dax and to me showed she had become more than the sum of her parts.
The great mystery of the nature of the Breen was handled well. It was cool how the many stories of what they are were all true, it showed a creative ability to take conflicting canon, and make it jive. Their taking soviet russia to an advanced level was interesting to read.

My issues were- Didn't Bashir play too many spy games and been a soldier too long to be so deeply affected by taking lives? Why would shooting the breen prototype have been an act of war but shoving it into the hanger to be destroyed not be? Was Vaughn's mortal injury in Destiny, I don't remember it? It saddens me also that future politicians are just as twisted as modern ones.

The engineer in me wonders how ship geometry affects slipstream, it bothers my understanding of structures and physics. I hope to find out if Sarina is playing Bashir or really loves him but is also using him or loves him and is playing section 31 to bring it down.

David Mack

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POSTS: 24

Report this Oct. 28 2010, 10:45 am

Mack, thanks for chiming in. It's nice to know our interest to your product is being seen. I hope your wife has since forgiven you for your time on the book, please give her our thanks.


She tolerates me to this day; it's unclear why, exactly. ;-)


 


I loooooooooooved the book. It was a wonderful extension of the Ezri/Aventine story and did a good job further establishing her command style. The 2 tricks she pulled with the Klingons was pure Dax and to me showed she had become more than the sum of her parts.


The great mystery of the nature of the Breen was handled well. It was cool how the many stories of what they are were all true, it showed a creative ability to take conflicting canon, and make it jive. Their taking soviet russia to an advanced level was interesting to read.


Soviet Russia taken to an ab asurdum is one possible interpretation of Breen society, but my most direct influences were the Kurt Vonnegut story "Harrison Bergeron," in which a false equality is imposed upon a society by handicapping everyone to the level of its weakest member, and George Orwell's dystopian classic, 1984.


 


My issues were- Didn't Bashir play too many spy games and been a soldier too long to be so deeply affected by taking lives?


There is a *big* difference between shooting characters in a simulation and killing real people in combat; there's also a subtle—but, to Bashir, critical—difference between taking lives in the heat of battle vs. armed combatants and mass-executing a room of unarmed civilians. It comes down to a matter of degrees: how cold-blooded can Bashir will himself to be? Where is the line that he can't cross, not even for love or country? Or has he already gone too far to turn back?


 


Why would shooting the breen prototype have been an act of war but shoving it into the hanger to be destroyed not be?


It's all about plausible deniability. The latter strategy can be written off as "an unfortunate collision precipitated by instrument failure aboard the Aventine as a result of the unprovoked attack by the Breen patrol fighters." Both sides would know the story was bullshit, but in politics the best bullshitter wins.


 


Was Vaughn's mortal injury in Destiny, I don't remember it?


Nope, it's a new bit of backstory developed for the Typhon Pact miniseries.


 


It saddens me also that future politicians are just as twisted as modern ones.


Sadly, I suspect some things will never change.


 


The engineer in me wonders how ship geometry affects slipstream, it bothers my understanding of structures and physics. I hope to find out if Sarina is playing Bashir or really loves him but is also using him or loves him and is playing section 31 to bring it down.


Well, you'll just have to keep reading the books, I guess. *grin*


Matthias Russell

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Report this Oct. 28 2010, 11:40 am

If the Aventine had fired torpedoes, beamed out their agents and fled before a breen cruiser arrived on scene, wouldn't the UFP have similar deniability. There would be no more proof of what really happened. Irregardless, the showdown was well done and I liked how it was detailed how personally defeated the breen engineer felt; as an engineer with kids it made me sympathize with the enemy.

A friend and I did find the sex scene a bit explicit and unusual. I've only seen Peter David go so in depth in a trek book sex scene, and he hasn't done that in while either. I'm sure the . . . hunger . . . was there, but it did seem out of place (the graphicness, if not the unromantic setting and smell for a first rendevous).

David Mack

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POSTS: 24

Report this Oct. 28 2010, 2:02 pm

^ I think you and I have very different definitions of "explicit." In my opinion, the scene in which Bashir and Sarina consummate their relationship was couched in euphemism and poetic license. Having read some of Peter David's scenes, I think the one in Zero Sum Game was tame by comparison. If it seems shocking at all, it's likely because most Trek books choose to do the literary equivalent of "panning away to the lamp" or cutting to the next scene at intimate moments. However, because I felt that the details of that moment were absolutely crucial for understanding the depth of Julian's emotional investment in Sarina, I chose to dramatize it (albeit as tastefully as I was able).

Matthias Russell

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Report this Oct. 28 2010, 3:45 pm

Very well put explanation. I can understand your reasoning in establishing that deep need and connection, and yes, that scene did not approach the level Peter David has reached. I am hardly qualified to pass literary criticism to a professional and hope my quarries have not been taken as judgmental. Thank you for your insight and for the wonderful read. I have enjoyed your writings and look forward to your future works. As a worker in the space program, it inspires me to read about what we aspire to do.

Lieutenant_Jedi

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Report this Oct. 28 2010, 10:58 pm

Finished "Zero Sum Game" yesterday. Thoroughly enjoyed the novel, and I look forward to the rest of the series. 


The Breen were well developed, although I wonder if their cultural makeup is "official". Is this how the Breen are portrayed in STO?


It was nice to see Julian Bashir in action again, and get some insight on his character. The overall feel of the "spy" parts of the novel was James Bond (Which is great because I love me some James Bond). Bashir - Julian Bashir. 


The "Cold war" elements of the story was very nice, and it is amazing to me that such disparate species can bond together in the Typhon Pact and stay focused on a single goal. 


i also enjoyed the use of the political characters at the Federation level - ever since "Articles of the Federation" it has been nice to see the political realities behind the scenes. 


Overall - very nice novel. My only thought - where is this all going? I wonder what the overall purpose of the Typhon Pact series is, other than to dig a bit into the various species in the Pact. How will it progress the overall story? 


I look forward to finding out, and hearing any Ideas from my fellow Trek novel lovers. 


"Can you detect midi - chlorians with a tricorder?"

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Oct. 29 2010, 5:39 am

Bacco is an amazing politician and she has been smartly developed. But she also is discouraging in that she seems so antithetical to what the UFP stands for. I guess she is like section 31, in that to have a 'free society', someone has to be willing to sacrifice their principles for everyone else's freedom. Maybe captain Ransom wasn't so bad, after all.

Lieutenant_Jedi

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Report this Oct. 29 2010, 6:37 am

Well this thread is about the "Typhon Pact" novels. Perhaps we should start one about politics in the Star Trek Universe.
In the David Mack novel, the actions of the main characters have galactic implications - so the head of state would have to be involved.
President Bacco does what is needed to prevent a larger war, one the Federation in the timeline would not be able to absorb, from breaking out. Yes this is a departure from the Gene Rodenberry vision of unity and peace and honesty, but ST has passed that line long ago.

"Can you detect midi - chlorians with a tricorder?"

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