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First Contact: Plot Holes and Oddities

AtoZ2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1297

Report this Oct. 25 2010, 2:51 pm

Vger23,
The problem is that Captbates only read the list and that was the basis for the reply.
Captbates did not read thru the rest of the thread, and if Captbates did, then it was completely ignored because they were too focus in on diproving the list...which by the way didn't happen. But it ws late and Captbates will return to the list later on....LOL

"Thank Pitch Forks and Pointed Ears"

MichaelRiker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 66

Report this Oct. 25 2010, 4:45 pm

Oh for heavens sake. The presupposed LONG list of plotholes that this post is supposed to be about  is so full of self opinionated contrivances, Most of them can be explained through history of the show. While there are a couple that would be important if you look at it deeply (although this IS about escapism). You find them in EACH and Every film ever produced if you want to look at it that way.  

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Oct. 25 2010, 5:34 pm

Quote: AtoZ2 @ Oct. 25 2010, 2:51 pm

Vger23, The problem is that Captbates only read the list and that was the basis for the reply. Captbates did not read thru the rest of the thread, and if Captbates did, then it was completely ignored because they were too focus in on diproving the list...which by the way didn't happen. But it ws late and Captbates will return to the list later on....LOL


Your right I didn't read the rest of the thread, just went with the first post. Sorry I didn't have time to go though the entire list, but my point is that most of it can be easily explained, although I do agree with you on some of it.

VGR23 is correct it's easier to explain away problems in a movie we like, and Trek is littered with them.....

....but I still stand by my post, most of the problems you've highlighted have legitimate answers, and some don't really need much explaining.

Overall I rate FC as the 3rd best movie, but I can understand why some fans have problems with it.

If you can read this it means I've got something to work on here.

Jake Sisko

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 40

Report this Oct. 26 2010, 11:55 am

Well thanks captbates for putting some sense in this thread...
And don't invest more time explaining, it's not warranted.
First Contact holds some of the finest character interactions, emotions and dialogue that I've seen in Star Trek. And that's what ST is all about. Even the storyline is good and I usually hate time travel plots.

They’ve given away their humanity with this genetic manipulation… Many of the qualities that they breed out, the uncertainty, the self-discovery, the unknown, these are many of the qualities that make life worth living… well, at least to me. I wouldn’t want to live my life knowing that my future was written, that my boundaries had been already set. Would you? -Jean-Luc Picard

Jake Sisko

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 40

Report this Oct. 26 2010, 1:21 pm

Oh and I forgot to mention the music! The soundtrack to this movie is great. I mean just watch and listen to the first 2:45 mins with the volume cranked up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcWOGRiwlfs

JaydenJaneway

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POSTS: 1140

Report this Oct. 26 2010, 3:22 pm

if the borg really wanted to assimilate earth, why didnt they send more than one vessel. they could have won if they sent several cubes but they sent only one each time.

MichaelRiker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 66

Report this Oct. 26 2010, 7:40 pm

Quote: JaydenJaneway @ Oct. 26 2010, 3:22 pm

if the borg really wanted to assimilate earth, why didnt they send more than one vessel. they could have won if they sent several cubes but they sent only one each time.

This is the Borg we are talking about. Perhaps it goes to their egotistical way they are..."WE ARE THE BORG,...you WILL be assimilated,...RESISTANCE is futile". And no matter what race they go up against, they were always on the winning end. And if I am not mistaken, the starfleet ships were not doing too hot until Picard and the E-E arrived to deliver the devastating/ shots that almost ended the conflict. Hell, Earth would have been lost if that wouldn't have happened.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Oct. 27 2010, 4:43 am

And, this post above perfectly illustrates the point AtoZ2 is trying to make:

How can we make easy, creative excuses for SOME of the movies while not affording the same leeway to OTHER movies simply because of our personal preferences? The answer is simple: the insecure need to rationalize and justify an opinion as FACT.

I AM KEE-ROCK!!

MichaelRiker

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POSTS: 66

Report this Oct. 27 2010, 5:17 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ Oct. 27 2010, 4:43 am

And, this post above perfectly illustrates the point AtoZ2 is trying to make: How can we make easy, creative excuses for SOME of the movies while not affording the same leeway to OTHER movies simply because of our personal preferences? The answer is simple: the insecure need to rationalize and justify an opinion as FACT.

A VERY poor ply coming from a "master" of Star Trek such as yourself. I wasn't bringing ANY other movie into the discussion other than what you have read yourself. DID you read the whole reply?.... I think not.I enjoyed EVERY Trek film and although I have my self imposed judgements, You my "kind" sir DO NOT have any inkling on what I have said or my thoughts on the other films. NICE way to sideswipe the post though....LMAO

Jake Sisko

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 40

Report this Oct. 28 2010, 9:40 am

Quote: Vger23 @ Oct. 27 2010, 4:43 am

And, this post above perfectly illustrates the point AtoZ2 is trying to make: How can we make easy, creative excuses for SOME of the movies while not affording the same leeway to OTHER movies simply because of our personal preferences? The answer is simple: the insecure need to rationalize and justify an opinion as FACT.

As demonstrated by none other than AtoZ2 himself; spending half a week coming up with a list that doesn't stand just cuz he didn't like the movie. It's ironic that he's the best example of the point he's making (which I understand and agree with...).

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Oct. 28 2010, 11:20 am

michaelriker- How COULD I have any insight into your thoughts on other films? The only thing you are capable of talking about is your complaintes about the latest one. , you're right, I have no idea about any other aspect of your personality other than the fact that you like b!+ching about the new movie and you relish conflict as opposed to discussion. If you contributed anything else to the board WHATSOEVER, I might feel differently. But, you don't. You gripe, you push buttons, and you proclaim yourself "victor" so you can feel good about "winning." Hey, everyone needs a "victory" in some form I suppose.


So, I'm not sideswiping anything. I'll hit it head-on. If you were an engaged member of the community, then maybe I'd take the time and learn / respect more about your differeing opinions. But, you're not. You're just out here to get a reaction from people and satisfy your need for conflict without risk of getting beaten up. I have yet to see you post a single comment or reply that doesn't fit this mold. It's either negative about something in the franchise you don't like (99% of it aimed at JJTrek) or it's chewing at someone you know you can get attention from (guilty as charged).


You're like the Comic Book guy from the Simpsons with a bad attitude.


 


But, as usual, you don't even address the issue. You get all charged up and emotional and bang on the PERSON in a defensive manner rather than addressing what I'm challenging you on:  


1. Why is it reasonable to rationalize an opinion with "plot holes and inconsistencies" for one movie and not for another, where you hypocritically just manufacture a bunch of fanwank BS excuses to fluff it off?


2. Are you so insecure in your opinion that you NEED to do this? Why does it matter? Why dosen't the simple answer of "It didn't entertain me. It doesn't meet my tastes" suffice? Why all the chest-thumping and justifying? Who gives a crap? Everyone has different tastes! Just becuase you're in the minority doesn't mean you have to feel like you're "wrong."


And, that's because you don't HAVE an answer. You just want to b!tch and be negative without anyone bothering you.  


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

AtoZ2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1297

Report this Oct. 28 2010, 11:36 am

Quote: Jake Sisko @ Oct. 28 2010, 9:40 am

> As demonstrated by none other than AtoZ2 himself; spending half a week coming up with a list that doesn't stand just cuz he didn't like the movie.


Actually it only took me about 15mins to assemble the list of plot holes...all I did was google a search for Star Trek Plot Hole and then simply copy and paste it together. You should have seen the stuff I left out!!!! Insurrection is one of the biggest offenders of plot holes, followed by Generations, but since that movie stinks, there was no need to use it as an example. Ironically the two worst Star Trek films have the least amount of Plot Holes, TFF & Nem...go figure.


"Thank Pitch Forks and Pointed Ears"

Jake Sisko

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 40

Report this Oct. 28 2010, 12:27 pm

Quote: AtoZ2 @ Oct. 28 2010, 11:36 am

Ironically the two worst Star Trek films have the least amount of Plot Holes, TFF & Nem...go figure.



Is that by your ranking? I agree that TFF wasn't good but the campfire scene at the start became one of my favorite Trek scenes because of the chemistry in it. I thought it was very representative of Trek. And I only got to know these characters from the movies. Nemesis wasn't that bad, there's certainly worse ST movies. Although one flagrant plot hole was Picard's clone not looking like him. I guess you could defend that by pointing out that he spent his life underground being beaten up but still, he should resemble Picard.

They’ve given away their humanity with this genetic manipulation… Many of the qualities that they breed out, the uncertainty, the self-discovery, the unknown, these are many of the qualities that make life worth living… well, at least to me. I wouldn’t want to live my life knowing that my future was written, that my boundaries had been already set. Would you? -Jean-Luc Picard

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