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Unlikely couple: Seven and Chakotay

starlisa

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POSTS: 163

Report this Dec. 06 2011, 5:01 pm

Quote: JOYOFVGR @ Dec. 06 2011, 5:46 am

>

>IMO the C/7 pairing alientated a lot of very large fandoms: J/C, D/7 and J/7. What's interesting is that there's a multitude of fan fic and forums dedicated to these fandoms that has kept them alive longer than if C/7 hadn't happened. Kind of reminds me of New Coke.

>


It is interesting. I am a diehard J/Cer too (and probably rant about it too much, lol) but while I think C/7 was a slap in the face to all the fandoms mentioned, and I will always regret that it happened because J/C meant a lot to me, it's certainly true that we wouldn't have as many great J/C fics had they got together in the end.


It's truly a case of something good coming out of something bad. At least we never had to endure a bad J/C get together scene. It has been done tastefully by fanfic writers and the possibilities are endless. I would have liked a J/C kiss, though...just one. There was surely an opportunity during the series to give us one in some kind of alternate reality or mind-control episode. I believe they considered having J/C as a couple under mind control in Workforce, but abandoned it. I think that would have been awesome and paved the way for them getting together in the finale.


From what they have said, both Kate Mulgrew and Robert Beltran played the characters as having feelings for each other. I wish they had objected to C/7 and fought for closure for J/C, but maybe in their different ways they thought C/7 worked. Kate was never a big fan of J/C, and Beltran may have thought Seven a good catch for Chakotay. Who knows. I can see "merits" to a C/7 pairing, but for me it wasn't consistent with Chakotay's established character. 


In my heart J/C rules and always will

starlisa

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 163

Report this Dec. 06 2011, 5:17 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Dec. 06 2011, 1:53 pm

>He got a blond and a first name, so he didn't do as badly as Kim now did he?

>


That was another relationship in the finale that irked me. The way they filmed it set us up (briefly) to think he was with Seven (they showed them from the back), but then we find out it's another woman.


It seems like the writers were about getting "trophy" women for the guys: Sexy blond for Chakotay, sexy blond for the doctor. Then Janeway says marriage is for the young. Then, back on Voyager, we get Chakotay acting like a teenager and wanting to manipulate duty shifts so he can be with Seven etc. It was all very immature writing IMO and not a fitting end to the series.


 

guillermo.mejía

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POSTS: 2852

Report this Dec. 07 2011, 4:53 am

Quote: starlisa @ Dec. 06 2011, 5:17 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Dec. 06 2011, 1:53 pm

>

>He got a blond and a first name, so he didn't do as badly as Kim now did he?

>

That was another relationship in the finale that irked me. The way they filmed it set us up (briefly) to think he was with Seven (they showed them from the back), but then we find out it's another woman.

It seems like the writers were about getting "trophy" women for the guys: Sexy blond for Chakotay, sexy blond for the doctor. Then Janeway says marriage is for the young. Then, back on Voyager, we get Chakotay acting like a teenager and wanting to manipulate duty shifts so he can be with Seven etc. It was all very immature writing IMO and not a fitting end to the series.

 

Subconciously I think even the writters didn't feel to great about it. Why else would Seven and Chakotay be dead in the future in the episode. I don't think they could bring themselves to have them grow old together because there was no chemestry, no story to tell. During the entire two-part finaly, their sub-plot romance never affects Adm. Janeway's story or the attack on the Borg transwarp hub. It's just there....eating away at airtime.


You know who WOULD swap duty shifts to be with Seven? Harry Kim, the eternal esnign.


"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon." - Scotty, The Miracle Worker since 2265.

starlisa

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POSTS: 163

Report this Dec. 07 2011, 7:57 am

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Dec. 07 2011, 4:53 am

> Subconciously I think even the writters didn't feel to great about it. Why else would Seven and Chakotay be dead in the future in the episode. I don't think they could bring themselves to have them grow old together because there was no chemestry, no story to tell. During the entire two-part finaly, their sub-plot romance never affects Adm. Janeway's story or the attack on the Borg transwarp hub. It's just there....eating away at airtime.


That is such an excellent point. The whole thing could be edited out with very little impact on the story. In that way, both characters deserved better for the finale than a sudden romance that most people can't relate to and don't like.


But, accepting C/7 as canon for a moment, it seems like they were "not meant to be" in either future. In the first future Seven died young, and in the new future getting home would probably result in them going their separate ways and J/C eventually hooking up. That's ultimately what happened in the books, anyway, because J/C is just the natural conclusion in so many people minds. Ironically, they killed Janeway in the books, so one could say that in the "canon" universe Chakotay is destined to lose the woman he loves in both futures.


For me, though, I prefer fanfiction and in my universe Janeway and Chakotay have a long and happy life together

starlisa

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POSTS: 163

Report this Dec. 07 2011, 8:04 am

 


Quote:

You know who WOULD swap duty shifts to be with Seven? Harry Kim, the eternal esnign.


Lol, yes, now that I could believe  I always liked the idea of Harry/Seven. I thought they would make a cute couple. I was never a great fan of D/7, but the pairing would have made much more sense than C/7.

JOYOFVGR

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POSTS: 11594

Report this Dec. 07 2011, 1:06 pm

Quote: starlisa @ Dec. 07 2011, 7:57 am

>

>For me, though, I prefer fanfiction and in my universe Janeway and Chakotay have a long and happy life together

>
Me too. I've read so many great fan fics, with so many different scenarios. In fact I'm way behind at this point. I haven't been to my fan fic site in months. Right about now they must be running a secret santa contest, which means brand new fics hot off the press.


I like everybody, even the people I don't like. They make things interesting. ;) Trying to get into the Nexus? Use this link: http://s13.zetaboards.com/NexusTrek/index/

Vulcan1981

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POSTS: 462

Report this Dec. 23 2011, 1:49 am

Honestly, I don't see Seven in a long term relationship, period. It just doesn't seem very Seven... 


"Comforting words. Use them next time instead of "resistance is futile". You may elicit a few volunteers."- Seven of Nine

chr33355

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Report this Dec. 23 2011, 5:51 am

All this crude about Janeway and Chakotay being together is based off of one eposide there really isn't any chemestry between the two I don't understand where it came from.

Matthias Russell

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Report this Dec. 23 2011, 4:36 pm

One episode?  It was there in seeveral episodes.  it is most obvious in the episode where they are stuck on a planet together but the attraction is obvious in many others, such as the Q and the Grey where Chuckles is jealous of Q making a pass at janeway.


JOYOFVGR

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POSTS: 11594

Report this Dec. 24 2011, 4:48 am

In addition there's edited out footage on You tube where they discuss having a relationship at the end of Hunters when Janeway finds out that Mark has moved on.

starlisa

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POSTS: 163

Report this Dec. 24 2011, 3:33 pm

I agree that it was in more than one episode, though never again as obvious as in Resolutions. But they were never again out of a command structure for as long as they were in Resolutions, were never again just Kathryn and Chakotay. For me, Resolutions shows how their relationship would develop if they were not Captain and First Officer. I think their "canon" relationship is meant to be bittersweet, a relationship that "could have been" had their circumstances been different, but that Chakotay eventually moved on and married Seven. But C/7 came so late and so fast that they didn't pull it off for me.

Vulcan1981

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POSTS: 462

Report this Dec. 25 2011, 12:09 am

Quote: starlisa @ Dec. 24 2011, 3:33 pm

>

>I agree that it was in more than one episode, though never again as obvious as in Resolutions. But they were never again out of a command structure for as long as they were in Resolutions, were never again just Kathryn and Chakotay. For me, Resolutions shows how their relationship would develop if they were not Captain and First Officer. I think their "canon" relationship is meant to be bittersweet, a relationship that "could have been" had their circumstances been different, but that Chakotay eventually moved on and married Seven. But C/7 came so late and so fast that they didn't pull it off for me.

>


 


Agreed... and the whole C/7 thing makes me want to vomit...


"Comforting words. Use them next time instead of "resistance is futile". You may elicit a few volunteers."- Seven of Nine

ThatRedheadedChic

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Report this Dec. 25 2011, 3:21 pm

I don't think chakotay and janeway would be a very good romantic match. They are deffinately very close, but those two as a couple just wouldn't work. They seem more like brother and sister.

Vulcan1981

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POSTS: 462

Report this Dec. 25 2011, 6:59 pm

Quote: JOYOFVGR @ Dec. 06 2011, 5:46 am

>

>IMO the C/7 pairing alientated a lot of very large fandoms: J/C, D/7 and J/7. What's interesting is that there's a multitude of fan fic and forums dedicated to these fandoms that has kept them alive longer than if C/7 hadn't happened. Kind of reminds me of New Coke.

>


 


Absolutely! The C/7 drek was a last minute cop out and I hated it. It's not that I don't like Chakotay or Seven, I just don't like them together. J/C, J/7, or D/7: I would have been completely happy with either of these. Either of those scenarios makes sense, heck even T/7 makes more sense!


Chakotay didn't even trust Seven a few episodes before that sorry excuse for a "romance" happened. This is the only thing I would honestly change about Voyager. It's almost like the writers sat around and thought, "Oh god, we can't give Janeway a happy ending and let her be with Chakotay since he will no longer be under her command when they get home and we know Chakotay still loves her, but he won't let her sacrifice her principles. The Doctor isn't handsome enough, we can't let the geek get the girl...Oh yeah, and there's too many lesbian rumors flying around about Janeway and Seven and we can't have that in Trek, so how can we solve all this? Let's put Chakotay and Seven together, that'll fix everything!"  (There really needs to be  a vomiting Andorian icon...)


"Comforting words. Use them next time instead of "resistance is futile". You may elicit a few volunteers."- Seven of Nine

starlisa

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POSTS: 163

Report this Dec. 26 2011, 3:59 am

So right! Why couldn't they give Janeway a happy ending? After all her years of sacrifice, and all Chakotay's years of hope, that's how it should have gone. I know some people don't like happy endings, but most people do.


Of course, Chakotay isn't the only guy to ever make her happy. When they got home she could have met someone else, or Mark could be divorced. But an audience only really cares about what they've seen on the tv. No one really cared about Janeway/Mark because Mark was out of our viewing experience, and so too is her hooking up with someone else post the series. It was Janeway/Chakotay that probably the majority of viewers cared about. Next to that Janeway/Seven. So, either J/C or a neutral ending would have pleased the majority of viewers. Some people do like C/7, and fair play to them as it will always be in the finale, but most people don't.


C/7 is about the only thing I would change about Voyager too.

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