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The tommygun scene In First Contact

Camorite

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Report this Sep. 10 2010, 4:53 pm

For a while now i have been having to fight agianst the Tommygun Scene from First Contact. I have come to the conclusion that it is not the conclusive evidence that many poeple claim that it is considering the Borg abilbity, or inability to adapt to projectile weapons.


If you watch the scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OCKDEdtWys) you can clearly see that the room they are in is crowded, and that the two Drones are making their way through the crowd when Picard swings around with the Gun and takes them compleatly by surprise, thus not giving them the chance to raise thier personal forcefields. I also believe that had there been more then just those two drones on the holodeck Picard would not have walked away from that encounter because the Borg would have adapted to the bullets (holographic or not) and continued to advance.


Now some might say that the drones had the time to adapt to the bullets once Picard was out in the open. Well i will say to those people that both drones had already taken damage by that time, and might not have been able to raise a shield to protect themselves. In either case i still maintain that if more then two drone had entered the holodeck Picard would have been screwed with a capital S.


This line of debate can also pertain to the other big weakness that many say that the Borg have, and that is to hand to hand combat, perticularly to bladed weapons. Now i know what you are thinking, Worf clearly disarmed that Drone in First Contact with his Mek'leth. My responce to that is that Worf only went up agianst that one Drone, and will also direct anyone that doubts this to watch the Voyager episode Unimatrix Zero where a Klingon named Koloth took on three drones that had invaded thier sanctuary, and though he did have success takeing out the first two with his Bat'leth, the third one did evade his attacks and gave him a blow to the back of his head for his troubles. Further more in First Contact when they try to retake engineering from the Borg, Worf and several other crew members attempt to use the butts of their weapons to take out drones. Though Worf is sucessful in this, the next crewman that we see try this is repeled by the Drone that he is attacking (now i will admit that this might very well be due to Worfs superior strength over humans, it is there all the same, and could be interpreted in any way).


So, though i do believe that it is posible to fight the borg sucessfully (we have seen it many times in Star Trek) the methods that i have pointed out are clearly overated due to insificiant amounts of canon, and members of the production staff that don't really understand what they are talking about.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Sep. 11 2010, 9:49 am

Camorite, I think the main problem here is that your suggestion relies a lot on the idea that the Borg still need to learn to adapt to solid projectile or melee weapons, almost as if they had never in their long history encountered them before the times we see them being shot or stabbed in Star Trek episodes.


I would suggest that this is rather implausible; with all of the thousands of races they have assimilated, it is inconceivable that they have never encountered ranged or melee kinetic attacks before, and if they are able to adapt shielding to counter them, then they would have done this long ago and Picard's and Worf's attacks would have been harmless.


You suggest that the drones in the tommy-gun scene did not have time to raise their shields, but I would argue that this is not the case. Firstly, I would suggest that drone shields are not dependent on the drone actually seeing the attack coming and reacting to it but rather are automatic; having to see and react to the shot coming would be exceptionally difficult with weapons whose shots can strike a target in a split-second like phasers, and would mean that the Collective is extremely vulnerable to snipers and guerilla warfare - never mind remodulating weapons, all you'd have to do to kill a drone is shoot from a concealed position or from a side angle.


Secondly, even if the above was not the case, I would argue that the drones had plenty of time to see the attack coming and raise any hypothetical shields - as we see in the video, shortly after Picard starts opening fire we see his shots hitting the bar between him and the Borg; the drones are walking at a steady pace and do not flinch at all as if being hit with bullets as they do later in the scene, seemingly being shielded by the bar. Picard and the Borg approach each other, and Picard is able to finally get a clear shot; the first drone is riddled, flinching under impact from the bullets as they strike it (which it was not doing previously), while the second drone is unaffected, and it is clear that Picard has been concentrating his fire on only one drone - once that one is dead, he starts to shoot the second.


The Borg do not appear to have been hit or suffered any major damage (they are striding along in exactly the same way as they had been previously whilst Picard's shots are striking the bar area) until Picard closes with them and circumvents the bar; this is more than enough time to have brought any shields present into play. The second drone is given even more time, as Picard does not riddle both drones simultaneously, but concentrates on the nearer one first. The fact that no shields are raised would suggest that they simply do not yet possess significant drone-mounted kinetic energy shielding technology.


Regarding the Borg's ability to combat melee weapons, while they most likely are able to adapt to fighting styles to a certain degree (i.e. if they are repeatedly hit over the head with a rifle they realise this and try to counter it), the fact that they don't simply erect a shield around themselves to deflect these melee attacks is evidence that they are simply unable to do this, and lends further credence to the idea that they simply have not yet acquired the requisite technology to create drone-mounted shields that repel kinetic attacks. You suggest that if Worf had met more than one drone it would have adapted to being sliced with a blade, but as above, this presupposes that in all their long history, the Borg have never been struck with a bladed weapon before, which I would suggest is somewhat unlikely to say the least.


In conclusion, I would argue that the above evidence suggests that the Borg simply have not yet acquired the technology to protect drones against kinetic attacks, and are thus somewhat vulnerable to this method of assault.

Camorite

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Report this Sep. 11 2010, 10:39 am

Camorite, I think the main problem here is that your suggestion relies a lot on the idea that the Borg still need to learn to adapt to solid projectile or melee weapons, almost as if they had never in their long history encountered them before the times we see them being shot or stabbed in Star Trek episodes.


Forgive my confustion, but are you agreeing or disagreeing with me on this point?


You suggest that the drones in the tommy-gun scene did not have time to raise their shields, but I would argue that this is not the case


Sorry, that was a poor choice of wording on my part, as though the borg may have the abilbity to control thier personal shields, i may also be a reflex action to long range weapons, such as energy or even projectile based weaponry.


Secondly, even if the above was not the case, I would argue that the drones had plenty of time to see the attack coming and raise any hypothetical shields - as we see in the video, shortly after Picard starts opening fire we see his shots hitting the bar between him and the Borg; the drones are walking at a steady pace and do not flinch at all as if being hit with bullets as they do later in the scene, seemingly being shielded by the bar. Picard and the Borg approach each other, and Picard is able to finally get a clear shot; the first drone is riddled, flinching under impact from the bullets as they strike it (which it was not doing previously), while the second drone is unaffected, and it is clear that Picard has been concentrating his fire on only one drone - once that one is dead, he starts to shoot the second.


Again, a poor choice in wording on my part. What i was trying to indicate was that it would take the loss of one or more drones before the Borg could adapt to a weapon, as we constantly see with the modulating frequencies on phasers. So therefore those two drones would have been lost regardless of whether they can adapt to projectile weapons or not., and perhaps the same would be true if more drones had been sent into the holodeck. But i have no doubt that they would have eventually adaptd to the bullets.


I will also point out that we have seen sheilds that have stopped projetile weapons before. in the TNG epsidoe Fistfull of Datas Worf was able to build a small personal shield emiter with his, and Troi's, communicators, and a boxfull of 19th century junk. If he could do this then why the hell can't the most advanced cybernetic race in the known galaxy do it as well? (NOTE: I know that some may not accept this point, but regardless of if they do or not it is still a valid point and should be taken under consideration by any rational thinking person)


Regarding the Borg's ability to combat melee weapons, while they most likely are able to adapt to fighting styles to a certain degree (i.e. if they are repeatedly hit over the head with a rifle they realise this and try to counter it), the fact that they don't simply erect a shield around themselves to deflect these melee attacks is evidence that they are simply unable to do this, and lends further credence to the idea that they simply have not yet acquired the requisite technology to create drone-mounted shields that repel kinetic attacks


Or they just don't wait the power that is required to raise a personal shield in close combat situations. We have already seen how much the colective cares about the wellbeing of its Drones (which is very little), so what is the loss of a few drones when they can collect the nessessary data needed to other drones to adapt to that attack. After all it is the exact same thing that they do woth long range weapons (IE send a drone into the situation, and let it be killed so that the next drone sent in is protected). In case i lost you, the poitn i am trying to make is that, by all indications, the Borg personal sheild is more of a long range weapon defense then an up-close and personal defense.


You suggest that if Worf had met more than one drone it would have adapted to being sliced with a blade, but as above, this presupposes that in all their long history, the Borg have never been struck with a bladed weapon before, which I would suggest is somewhat unlikely to say the least.


And every time they encounter the Borg, whoever it is is able to take out anywhere between one to a dozen drones before they adapt to the phasers, and we know for a fact that that instance is not the first time they have gone up agianst those type of weapons. Now the only theory that i can come up with to explain this is that the Borg considers each encounted to be a new one, and therefore does not use the, for lakc of better wording, protocals that they created to deal with previous situations (again this is only a guess, so don't ask were i got this from)


In conclusion, I would argue that the above evidence suggests that the Borg simply have not yet acquired the technology to protect drones against kinetic attacks, and are thus somewhat vulnerable to this method of assault


Obviously i don't agree with you on your conclusion, and will point out that there is more then enough canon evidence to support the fact that the Borg don't just assimilate advanced cultures (just watch The Omega Directive to see what i mean) which means that they would have gone up against projectile or bladed weapons during the assimilation of those cultures, but i won't go into, again, why i think that they don't use this knowledge against others (Reread the last comment i made on this subject).


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

Vorta_the_point

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Report this Sep. 11 2010, 6:02 pm

 


Camorite, I think the main problem here is that your suggestion relies a lot on the idea that the Borg still need to learn to adapt to solid projectile or melee weapons, almost as if they had never in their long history encountered them before the times we see them being shot or stabbed in Star Trek episodes. 


Forgive my confustion, but are you agreeing or disagreeing with me on this point?


I’m disagreeing - I believe that the Borg have encountered these weapons before, and that they would have adapted defences to completely neutralise them by now if their technology permitted them to; the fact that they have not is evidence that they do not yet possess this level of technology.


 


Sorry, that was a poor choice of wording on my part, as though the borg may have the abilbity to control thier personal shields, i may also be a reflex action to long range weapons, such as energy or even projectile based weaponry.


Ah – you suggest that they only possess shields for long range projectile weaponry?


 


Again, a poor choice in wording on my part. What i was trying to indicate was that it would take the loss of one or more drones before the Borg could adapt to a weapon, as we constantly see with the modulating frequencies on phasers. So therefore those two drones would have been lost regardless of whether they can adapt to projectile weapons or not., and perhaps the same would be true if more drones had been sent into the holodeck. But i have no doubt that they would have eventually adaptd to the bullets.


This is where I would disagree; the Borg have undoubtedly encountered projectile weaponry before, so if they are able to adapt a counter to it, they should already have it by now and used it against Picard.


I will also point out that we have seen sheilds that have stopped projetile weapons before. in the TNG epsidoe Fistfull of Datas Worf was able to build a small personal shield emiter with his, and Troi's, communicators, and a boxfull of 19th century junk. If he could do this then why the hell can't the most advanced cybernetic race in the known galaxy do it as well? (NOTE: I know that some may not accept this point, but regardless of if they do or not it is still a valid point and should be taken under consideration by any rational thinking person)


Not necessarily; a generally more advanced culture does not necessarily possess every technological advance in every area (for example, the Empire possesses superior power generation, propulsion, construction and weapons technology than the Federation, yet the Federation possesses superior transporter and dermal regeneration technology; it doesn’t alway follow).


 


Or they just don't wait the power that is required to raise a personal shield in close combat situations. We have already seen how much the colective cares about the wellbeing of its Drones (which is very little), so what is the loss of a few drones when they can collect the nessessary data needed to other drones to adapt to that attack. After all it is the exact same thing that they do woth long range weapons (IE send a drone into the situation, and let it be killed so that the next drone sent in is protected). In case i lost you, the poitn i am trying to make is that, by all indications, the Borg personal sheild is more of a long range weapon defense then an up-close and personal defense.


I agree regarding shielding being long range; it may even be that Borg shields need to be a certain distance away from the drone, and thus melee weapons strike the Borg ‘behind’ the shield. It does however rather imply that they cannot stop physical objects (for example, it would make sense for the drone to project a shield that no physical object, not even people or weapons, could pass through; evidently they are not able to do this, or they would.


I don’t however agree that the Collective sacrifices drones unnecessarily when an option that would save them the loss of these drones and still achieve their objectives is available.


 


And every time they encounter the Borg, whoever it is is able to take out anywhere between one to a dozen drones before they adapt to the phasers, and we know for a fact that that instance is not the first time they have gone up agianst those type of weapons. Now the only theory that i can come up with to explain this is that the Borg considers each encounted to be a new one, and therefore does not use the, for lakc of better wording, protocals that they created to deal with previous situations (again this is only a guess, so don't ask were i got this from)


I’d disagree with this; the idea that the Borg ‘resets’ itself and forgets all its adaptations each engagement would be completely illogical for the race, particularly when their whole existence revolves around the acquisition of new knowledge to perfect themselves. I would suggest that the idea that they simply do not have the technology yet to create the requisite defences in certain situations is a better alternative as it fits the evidence and does not force the Borg to act illogically.


I would also suggest that in First Contact the initial wave of drones died to phasers the first time because they were remodulated from their ‘default’ in preparation for Borg engagement.


 


Obviously i don't agree with you on your conclusion, and will point out that there is more then enough canon evidence to support the fact that the Borg don't just assimilate advanced cultures (just watch The Omega Directive to see what i mean) which means that they would have gone up against projectile or bladed weapons during the assimilation of those cultures, but i won't go into, again, why i think that they don't use this knowledge against others (Reread the last comment i made on this subject).


Again, I would disagree with the idea that they adapt to attacks and then just forget about them for the next engagement; it just makes no sense that any sane race would do such thing and handicap them in such away, particularly when an alternate suggestion exists which does not entail them acting in this manner.

Camorite

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Report this Sep. 12 2010, 10:25 am

I’m disagreeing - I believe that the Borg have encountered these weapons before, and that they would have adapted defences to completely neutralise them by now if their technology permitted them to; the fact that they have not is evidence that they do not yet possess this level of technology.


No, now i am the one disagreeing with you. we know for a fact that they have gone up against phasers before, and yet every time they engage starfleet it takes between 1 and 12 drones being hit for them to adapt to that technology. This clearly shows, IMO at least, that the borg are not ready for every weapon system out there when they encounter it, and therefore must access the collectives data for that weapon and impliment it after each battle starts. Which of course means that those two drones in the Holodeck would not have stood a chance agianst the Tommygun.


Ah – you suggest that they only possess shields for long range projectile weaponry?


It only makes sence. How often have you seen drone's use shields in close range combat? The answer is not once. In the three eipsodes and one movie, that i can think of at this time, where they had up closse combat (First Contact, Scorpion, Drone, and Unimatrix Zero. NOTE: In Drone though One did use his personal sheilds when he Boarded the Sphear, non of the other Drones did the same.), in fact the only times that we see Personal Shields being used (with the exception of One in Drone) is when they are being attacked by long range weapons. 


This is where I would disagree; the Borg have undoubtedly encountered projectile weaponry before, so if they are able to adapt a counter to it, they should already have it by now and used it against Picard.


Ok, lets explore this opinion that you have here. Try to remember that, despite all of the technology, borg drones are still biological lifeforms. If the collective put into each drone how to protect itself from every single weapon that they have ever encountered, it would, even with implants that improved the way that the mind worked, more then likely overload the drone and make it useless to the collective. This is one of the reasons that i surmise that each drone has the proper defense downloaded into it once the collective analyses the attacking weapons, which is also why anywhere from 1 to 12 drones are usually killed, even by weapons that they have encountered before, such as phasers. 


Not necessarily; a generally more advanced culture does not necessarily possess every technological advance in every area. 


That don't matter. They already have the shielding, all it would take is a slight change to it (such as  increasing the power output), and they would be able to fend off projectile attacks as well without any problem. 


I agree regarding shielding being long range; it may even be that Borg shields need to be a certain distance away from the drone, and thus melee weapons strike the Borg ‘behind’ the shield. It does however rather imply that they cannot stop physical objects (for example, it would make sense for the drone to project a shield that no physical object, not even people or weapons, could pass through; evidently they are not able to do this, or they would.  


Well thank you for agreeing with me on the longrange weapons part, and i will concure with what you say about melee attacks (after all it is what i have been saying for a while now). But it makes no sence for them to create a shield like the one that you mentioned. For one, we have no idea what powers the BPS (Borg Personal Shield). I think that, based off of what we have seen in the Voyager episode the Raven that they are controled by an internal power source implanted inside of each drone. this being the case the power that they can generate is limited, and that is posibly why they only adapt to a perticular frequency when fighting the Federation. less likely is that the power source is external, meaning that power is being fed to them from some sort of generator on each Borg ship. Of course it could also be a combination of both suggestions as well, we just don't know. But if it is an internal power source, then the borg more then likely don't create shields like that because they would be a hight power drain on the drones using it.


I don’t however agree that the Collective sacrifices drones unnecessarily when an option that would save them the loss of these drones and still achieve their objectives is available.


Just look at it from the point of view of the collective, what is one drone when they could eventually have 50 to replace it. Also in The Omega Directive Seven told Janeway about the collectives attempt to create the Omega particle. Thousands of Drones were lost in that experiment, and yet the collective still wanted to have to particle. The same could be said for Earth, The Queen revieled to Seven in Dark Frontier that despite two failed attemps to take Earth, and subsequently the Federation, she was still adiment about assimilating Humanity, and those two missions cost the collective thousands of drones, as well as a queen. so to say that the borg don't sacrifice drones needlessly is wrong, if they think it will hell to acheive thier goals, they would do it in a heartbeat.


I’d disagree with this; the idea that the Borg ‘resets’ itself and forgets all its adaptations each engagement would be completely illogical for the race, particularly when their whole existence revolves around the acquisition of new knowledge to perfect themselves. I would suggest that the idea that they simply do not have the technology yet to create the requisite defences in certain situations is a better alternative as it fits the evidence and does not force the Borg to act illogically.


I never once said that the Borg reset themselves (though i will point out that in I Borg the collective did download the experiences that Hugh had on the enterpise, then tried to erase his memory of it). I am simply saying that only pertanat information is given to the drones to deal with thier current assignment/problem, and then once that is finished, it is taken from the memories of the drones. 


I would also suggest that in First Contact the initial wave of drones died to phasers the first time because they were remodulated from their ‘default’ in preparation for Borg engagement.


I am not sure that i understand what you are saying here, so i will save a rebutle for after you explain it better.


Again, I would disagree with the idea that they adapt to attacks and then just forget about them for the next engagement; it just makes no sense that any sane race would do such thing and handicap them in such away, particularly when an alternate suggestion exists which does not entail them acting in this manner


How else do you explain why they need to adapt to Phasers every time they encounter them, its because each drone only has basic information downloaded into them at any given time. They are then given new information as it is needed. That is why they need to adapt to phasers every time they encounter them, and that is why those two drones on the holodeck couldn't defend themselves against the tommygun.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

velaris

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Report this Sep. 14 2010, 8:12 am

You guys ever consider the fact that they were disconnected from the main collective (which is seen in them trying to establish a connection with the 21st century collective), that they didn't have the collective knowledge and had to learn to adapt to weaponry all over again?

Camorite

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Report this Sep. 14 2010, 2:22 pm

Quote: velaris @ Sep. 14 2010, 8:12 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>You guys ever consider the fact that they were disconnected from the main collective (which is seen in them trying to establish a connection with the 21st century collective), that they didn't have the collective knowledge and had to learn to adapt to weaponry all over again?
That is a possibility as well, but it should be pointed out that that might have been the reason that they brought the queen along.


That is a possibility as well, but it should be pointed out that that might have been the reason that they brought the queen along.


"What i Hate more then anything else is someone that thinks that they know everything. That must mean that I really hate myself", "Freedom is the right of all setient beings!" (Optimus Prime: Transformers), "That's on small step for man, one giant leap for mankind!" Neil Armstrong 8-5-30 to 8-25-12

velaris

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Report this Sep. 14 2010, 2:24 pm

I doubt even the queen could contain the entire collective knowledge in a humanoid body.

Camorite

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Report this Sep. 14 2010, 2:27 pm

That is true, but what i was refering to was the fact that they brought her along as the voice of the collective, at least until they were able to connect with the Borg of the 21st century.

velaris

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Report this Sep. 14 2010, 2:30 pm

appearently according to some early drafts for the 5th season of ENT, the queen was a medical officer onboard the NX-01 that got assimilated by the borg. interesting...

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Sep. 14 2010, 2:40 pm

While it does seem likely, as Vorta_the_point suggests, that the Borg have encountered species that use kinetic attacks (such as bladed weapons), there's still the question when it comes to the tommygun... how many times did they have to adapt to holographic weapons?

 photo spok_zps253ab564.gif

Camorite

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Report this Sep. 14 2010, 2:51 pm

then this must be where crewman cuttler dissapeared to, LOL. i can except the fact that we met people assimilated at Wolf 359 in Voyager, but i just can't accept that load of crap velaris.


For one, there was no time for the drones who boarded enterprise to fully assimilate someone, as there are always external parts that need to be added in order to compleat a drone.


Second, though some may argue that it is possible that she encountered one of the assimilated Tarkalean's that were loose on the ship, i highly doubt it since this unfortunate medic would have had to be roaming the jefferies tubes while they were loose, as they were only in Sickbay and the tubes after they woke up. the problem with this is that we saqw a good portion of thier movements in the tubes after they left sickbay, and they were more concerned with assimilating the ship then individuals.


Third, how would this poor soul have gotten away from the Borg transport when it was destroyed. The ship was pretty much destroyed, and Archer, having learned the truth about this perticular race, would have destroyed any type of ship or escape pod that was launched durring the battle.


lastly, i can't believe that they would try to do another Borg story at any point after this one, as it was poorly recieved by the fans, and they already tied up the loose ends created by Generations and certain Voyager episodes that clearly showed that the Federation knew about the Borg long before the events of in Q-Who?


So to recap, though i don't doubt that they might have done this for some early stuff, i seriously doubt that they would have actually made it into an actual episode, especially with the bulk of the fanbase screaming that they wanted to see the Romulan/Earth war in the fith season.

Camorite

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Report this Sep. 14 2010, 2:59 pm

While it does seem likely, as Vorta_the_point suggests, that the Borg have encountered species that use kinetic attacks (such as bladed weapons), there's still the question when it comes to the tommygun... how many times did they have to adapt to holographic weapons?


I was actually wondering when someone would bring up this point invader, and the simple answer to this part is that, despite the fact that the bullets were holographic by nature, they still worked the same way as real bullets from that time period would have. To be honest i could easily say that Picard programed to these bullets so that they would pass right through the borg shields, but i didn't, simply because of the fact that he wouldn't have had the time to do so (after all he barley had the time to get the program engaged before the Drones forced their way into the holodeck).


So in the end it don't matter if they were real or holographic, what matters is the core of the debate, and this if they could adapt to them.

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Sep. 14 2010, 3:12 pm

Quote: Camorite @ Sep. 14 2010, 2:59 pm

While it does seem likely, as Vorta_the_point suggests, that the Borg have encountered species that use kinetic attacks (such as bladed weapons), there's still the question when it comes to the tommygun... how many times did they have to adapt to holographic weapons?

I was actually wondering when someone would bring up this point invader, and the simple answer to this part is that, despite the fact that the bullets were holographic by nature, they still worked the same way as real bullets from that time period would have. To be honest i could easily say that Picard programed to these bullets so that they would pass right through the borg shields, but i didn't, simply because of the fact that he wouldn't have had the time to do so (after all he barley had the time to get the program engaged before the Drones forced their way into the holodeck).

So in the end it don't matter if they were real or holographic, what matters is the core of the debate, and this if they could adapt to them.



Holograms are energy fields. Photons and force fields. While a holographic representation of an object may produce a similar effect as the object being simulated, the fact is that it's an energy field versus a physical object. Since it was energy fields that the Borg were being hit with, it's energy fields that they'd need to adapt to. But this raises further questions. Such as, do all the holograms on the holodeck have the same energy signature or frequency? If yes, adaptation would be quite easy. However, I believe that the answer is no, since the Borg did analyze one of the holograms in great detail (the Maitre d'), so they should have been able to adapt. However, they do not. Not only that, but the second drone fails to adapt even though the first is struck repeatedly. The second drone's failure may be due to the lack of assimilated drones to assist in adaptation (network processing), but the fact that after analyzing the Maitre d' and still not adapting, it seems likely that each individual hologram has it's own signature and/or frequency.

 photo spok_zps253ab564.gif

Camorite

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Report this Sep. 14 2010, 3:20 pm

Holograms are energy fields. Photons and force fields. While a holographic representation of an object may produce a similar effect as the object being simulated, the fact is that it's an energy field versus a physical object. Since it was energy fields that the Borg were being hit with, it's energy fields that they'd need to adapt to. But this raises further questions. Such as, do all the holograms on the holodeck have the same energy signature or frequency? If yes, adaptation would be quite easy. However, I believe that the answer is no, since the Borg did analyze one of the holograms in great detail (the Maitre d'), so they should have been able to adapt. However, they do not. Not only that, but the second drone fails to adapt even though the first is struck repeatedly. The second drone's failure may be due to the lack of assimilated drones to assist in adaptation (network processing), but the fact that after analyzing the Maitre d' and still not adapting, it seems likely that each individual hologram has it's own signature and/or frequency.


You do raise an interesting point invader, and it is a compeling debate to the validity of my claims that the scene is not 100% accurate. i will have to give this one a little more thought before i give a proper reply.

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