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Transwarp Beaming Impact on Novels

Data Logan

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Report this Aug. 25 2010, 8:59 pm

Has anyone discussed the implications of the long-distance transwarp beaming seen in the 2009 Star Trek movie?
This thing is huge!
The ability to use transporters over intergalactic distances is way beyond Federation technology we've seen in any time. This was well established in TOS episodes Assignment: Earth and The Gamesters of Triskelion, as well as TNG episodes like Bloodlines over a hundred years later.

Certainly in the new timeline created by the movies the Federation now have the technology, at least 100 years before they would otherwise reasonably get it, there are bound to be major changes.
Remember when the Federation and the Klingon Empire goes to war in Errand of Mercy? If the Federation had transwarp beaming technology they could beam warheads onto military targets from light-years away. Makes short work of the Klingons.
They same would be true of almost any threat.
Even if regular shielding works against this type of beaming, you can’t keep your shields up all the time.
Certainly it would be a devastating weapons for months/years until the foe adjusted.
And what about non-military aspects. No need for that quadrotriticale to be shipped through Deep Space Station K-7 to Sherman’s Planet where it would be unnecessarily vulnerable to Klingons like Arne Darvin when you could just transport it from a planet a few solar systems over.

And the impact on the original Roddenberry timeline is also an issue. Even if Spock Prime from the 2009 movie didn't come from the timeline we have been reading about in recent books, certainly whatever timeline he came from they had transwarp beaming invented by 2387. Say Spock Prime came from the "ST: Online" timeline and all the other books we have been reading come from a different timeline (that I will call Destiny since it's a timeline where that significant event has happen, which may not have happen in the Online timeline or Spock Prime's timeline). There is still a Montgomery Scott in the "Destiny" timeline. Probably he's close to discovering transwarp beaming.

This would/should have a huge impact on new novels put out. Scotty invents transwarp beaming and everything changes. We already have slip-stream drive, which is changing what we think of as the limits of explored space, changing the size of the Federation's grasp dramatically. And now we have Scotty's transwarp beaming.
Remember in A Singular Destiny where the Federation is trying hard to get supplies from one planet to another? Now transwarp beaming will allowing all the weary planets left trying to survive after the Dominion War and Borg Blitzkrieg to send supplies amongst themselves far easier. And certainly it will have military aspects on any conflicts between the Federation and the Typhon Pact, etc.

This is huge. I would like to see it dealt with in soon-to-be novels. Has there been any discussion about this?

MetalGorn

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Report this Aug. 28 2010, 9:45 am

Honestly, I dont like it. I think it opens a huge can of worms including many of the factors you mentioned in your post.


That whole beaming across such a great distance was one of the major problem points I had with the new Start Trek 2009 movie, and yes I did love the movie. What I love about Star Trek is that it is realistic sci fi. However, beaming someone from still location to an object moving at warp speed light years away seems like far too much a stretch even for 24th (or in the movie's case, 23rd) century technology.


I think it should be left out of the regular everyday happenings of Starfleet and only found in special cases like Iconian Gateways and so forth.


 


Ships with transwarp to me are believable, but transporters with that ability, not so much.


Earthling! I grow weary from the chase. Wait for me! I shall be merciful, and quick!

kmb035

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Report this Aug. 29 2010, 6:56 am

My theory: After Montgomery Scott was rescued from the transport crashed on the dyson sphere he left the enterprise from his shuttlecraft and headed to a federation world to do research on an old school subject him and his instructor, Professor Archer, used to argue about, transwarp beaming. He workd on it and perfected it with Ambassador Spock, on leave from Romulus, and perfected the technique. Spock as we know got sucked into the alternate universe and knew the only way to get kirk back on the enterprise from Delta Vega was his old friends formula for transwarp beaming.

Since we dont know whats happening in the prime uiverse at this time or the time of scotty's schooling, we dont know if they are using it. Since Q said in an episode of VOY that humans arent supposed to be in the delta quadrant for another 100 years we must assume its by transwarp drive. Maybe the federastion used transwarp beaming first or thats how they exlpored the delta quadrant. For me it fits, what do you think?

Data Logan

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Report this Aug. 29 2010, 10:22 pm

kmb035, I think you are confusing transwarp beaming with transwarp drive. 


Transwarp drive was mentioned a few times in Star Trek, most notibly ST:III and VGR episode Threshold.  And it was made clear that the technology never worked and the Federation never has had transwarp drive.  (Voyager got into the Delta Quadrant by the Caretaker's actions in VGR episode Caretaker.  They did not use transwarp drive.)


Slimpstream drive, however, was experimented with in a couple VGR episodes and seemed reasonable.


Transwarp beaming is not a technology the Federation ever developed; at least not up until 2379, the timeframe of ST:Nemesis, based on no mention of it through all the aired episodes and movies up until that point.


kmb035's basic idea that Scotty revisitied his earlier work and then got perfected transwarp beaming some time after entering the 24th century is sound.  But this would have to have happen some time after 2379 in order to fit into canon.


And there have been many storys written that take place after ST: Nemesis, up until at least mid-2381.  I like all the work done by the authors of these books and I don't want to see the books put aside just to met the requirement that Scotty invented transwarp beaming.  Plus, it's doubtful that we will see another story of that timeperiod appearing on air in an episode or film any time soon, so the only place you can likely do anything with this story idea is in the books.  This is why I posted this on the Books Message Board.  I was looking to discuss with other fans who have read the books.


Data Logan

Data Logan

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Report this Aug. 29 2010, 10:34 pm

I sort of agree with MetalGorn actually, transwarp beaming seems a bit too powerful. I almost wish the writers of the 2009 film had found some other way to deal with the threat in the movie vice "inventing" transwarp beaming.

But, as they say, the genii is out of the bottle now. Hopefully, they will come up with some plausible reason why the technology is hidden in the new "Abrams" timeline. Like Spock Prime knew how much it would affect the balance of power for the Federation to have so much power and he asked the Enterprise crew to keep it a secret.

But the technology does, I think still need to be dealt with in the original "Roddenberry" timeline that is still playing out in novels. Some time between mid-2381, when the latest books are happening, to 2387, when Spock Prime goes back in time, Scott will need to invent transwarp beaming so that Spock Prime knows of the method to share with younger Scotty back in time.

I think the technology will have less impact on the Star Trek universe in 2380s than it would on the Star Trek universe of the 2260s. At least in the 2380s Starfleet has ships with slipstream drive (according to the books) out there exploring much farther away from Earth than ever before, even back into the Delta Quadrant. The Federation is effectively reaching out much more than before.
Maybe the transwarp beaming has its limits, too, like a range of "only" 10 lightyears. This would still make it very powerful and useful, but limits its already significant impact on the Star Trek universe.

Whichever way the writers go with it, I think this needs to be dealt with.

Data Logan

Data Logan

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Report this Sep. 12 2010, 10:04 pm

-retracted-


Data Logan

kmb035

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Report this Sep. 19 2010, 2:37 pm

Well I tried to explain it

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Sep. 30 2010, 12:29 pm

That is a good theory that Scotty did it after Riker / Geordi rescued him from the Dyson's Sphere.

Data Logan

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Report this Jan. 31 2011, 7:48 am

With the novel "Indistinguishable from Magic" coming out in March, I thought I'd resurrect this discussion a little.

Could IFM possibly deal with transwarp beaming?
With strong technical cast like Montgomery Scott, La Forge, and Nog it is certainly possible.

I just wonder what Guinan's role is.

Data Logan

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Report this Feb. 21 2011, 8:31 pm

I had this discussion thread on trekBBS.com and some people, included Christopher L. Bennett, pointed out something that I had forgotten:

We saw similar and dangerous long-range "subspace beaming" as far back as Next Gen's "Bloodlines".
But, in that episode it was made clear that the technology wasn't really practical and therefore would not play a major role in future novels, etc:

LAFORGE: We think he's using some sort of subspace transporter to beam aboard the Enterprise.
PICARD: My understanding is that such devices were impractical.
DATA: The Federation abandoned its research in the field because the technology was found to be unreliable, as well as energy intensive.
LAFORGE: In order to transport matter through subspace, you have to put it into a state of quantum flux. It's very unstable.

I remembered the long-range subspace transporter from Bloodlines, but I had forgotten the important lines from Data and La Forge about how the technology was already known, unstable, unreliable, and energy intensive.  That certainly takes away most of the advantages I was linking to the "new" technology.  Unstable and unreliable, so you probably don't want to transport people that way regularly.  Energy intensive, so even cargo transportation could be done more effectively with ships than with subspace/transwarp beaming.  And known because Scotty and others had presumably experimented with the technology prior to 2369, when that episode takes place.

I guess that just leaves me back to wishing ST09 had found a better way to get Kirk back on the Enterprise besides "inventing" and using transwarp beaming.  As Christopher L. Bennett points out, "this is a technology that's known to exist, but is too dangerous to be used under most circumstances. However, in the '09 movie, given that Earth's survival was in danger, Spock Prime deemed the circumstances desperate enough to use the technology. And as with most million-to-one chances undertaken by Kirk, Spock, and friends, it worked. But that doesn't mean it would be safe or sane to use it as a matter of course."  I guess Scotty just happen to be on Delta Vega with a surplus of extra energy (because it's energy intensive) and luck (because it's unstable and unreliable).  Annoying.

Oh, let's not forget that they used subspace beaming again later in the movie when they beamed Kirk and Spock from the Enterprise (near Saturn at the time) onto the Narada (which was in orbit of Earth at the time).  Clearly extending the range of "normal" transporters used in Star Trek.  And both of these uses of the "unreliable" technology have no real consequences.  (The fact that Scotty transports into a water pipe is not a real consequence of the technology in use; their coordinates were just a little off because Spock was guessing on the exact location of the Enterprise.)  What I mean by consequences is that no one died, or lost a body part, or got horribly mutilated, or developed genetic deficiencies (presumably).  4 people beamed and no real consequences.  Seems like very reliable technology to me.  I could argue that this is important because obviously the beaming tech that Scotty and Spock came up with here is tons better than any "unstable and unreliable" subspace beaming Data and La Forge were talking about in 2369.

But, you know what.  I'm not going to.  Because, really, I didn't like the technology in the first place.  I was just nervous about it's implications.  I want to forget about it just as much as everyone else seems to.

But even with all that being explained away by Data and La Forge in Bloodlines, we still might have to worry about the technology as an occasional weapon.  Who knows when the Typhon Pact might try and send a bomb through subspace transporter over a few light-years to hit a target.  (Assuming the cold war were to heat up, etc.)  Maybe that's how they took out Utopia Planetia in Zero Sum Game?  When you are using long-rang transporters as a weapons, I think, you tend not to worry as much about the "unstable, unreliable, and energy intensive" aspects of it.

Trekwolf164

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Report this Feb. 22 2011, 11:28 am

This is an interesting topic. The tech works as you pointed out.


I guess we will have to wait for JJ's next installment to find out if there is a brand new future for the Federation

Data Logan

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Report this Feb. 22 2011, 4:18 pm

as I try to point out above, this does not just affect the Abrams universe.  This technology does exist (or should soon be created) in the Roddenberry universe that still exists in the books

Data Logan

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Report this Feb. 23 2011, 7:35 pm

I don't remember the exact line from the movie, but NuScotty did state that he was the one to come up with the idea of long-distance transporting (in addition to transwarp beaming). He said that he theorized NOT ONLY that one can transport from one planet to another (which was easy) [long-distance transporting], but ALSO that one can transport to an object in warp [transwarp beaming]. Spock refers to transwarp beaming, but they are certainly using some kind of long-distance beaming in addition to the "transwarp" aspect. And then the long-distance beaming is used later in the movie, as mentioned before, without the transwarp part of it.

This long-distance beaming is not named in the ST09 movie. But I like the reasoning that Christopher L. Bennett has given on another message board. For the sake of storytelling and being able to sweep this under the rug as quickly as possible, let's just say that the technique was indeed the same "subspace transportation" that La Forge and Data speak about in "Bloodlines". This means that regardless of how lucky Kirk and company happen to be in the movie, the technology was later found to be unstable, unreliable, and energy-entensive. And maybe there's also some fairly cheep method of blocking it around sensitive compounds like Starfleet Command (to eliminate the weapon threat).

So now we can all be happy in the knowledge that this crazy tech has been placed safely back in the bottle and will not rear its ugly head to cause problems in Star Trek stories for the near future.

As an aside, I would further recommend that this technology was something Prime Scotty postulated and experimented on prior to being on the Jenolan. It seems to make more sense given that NuScotty was working on the tech as early as the 2250s. And it would further support the conversation in "Bloodlines" where Data, La Forge, and Picard all have memories of this tech being know. They weren't talking about it like it was a really new tech, which it would have had to have been if Scotty worked on it after the Jenolan (because he only got off the Jenolan about a year and a half earlier).

CmdrBrodyHansen

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Report this Feb. 24 2011, 9:30 pm

Transwarp beaming was a plot device without any thought to the Star Trek universe.


Besides, just because Spoick knows of Transwarp beaming, and just because Scotty invented it, doesn't mean either of them told anyone about it.


 

___Lucifer___

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Report this Feb. 25 2011, 1:30 am

It's a deux ex machina device and I hope it stays buried and forgotten.

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