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William T. Riker or W. Thomas Riker?

konarciq

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POSTS: 930

Report this Aug. 23 2010, 7:51 am

One and the same person, but they lived totally different lives for the past eight years. Now that he´s been rescued off Nervala, how do you think their characters are different? Or aren´t they?


And who do you think would be preferable for Deanna to have a relationship with, and possibly marry?


(I loved how she was acknowledging that it was difficult for anyone and everyone, but I can´t imagine it was all that easy for her either having to deal with a second Will Riker all of a sudden...)


If there is nothing wrong with me, then maybe there´s something wrong with the universe? -Dr. Crusher

2takesfrakes

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POSTS: 3682

Report this Aug. 24 2010, 6:36 pm

Your post reminds me actually, of one of the themes in NEMESIS:
Who we are; is it something we're born with? Do we acquire it?
Do we choose it? Or does being a "clone" (as was Shinzon, and
arguably B-4) resign you to being the "echo" of the "voice"?

As to whom Deanna would prefer, Deanna's a counselor and I'm
sure she would defer to that in realizing she just wanted Wil.

UNTRugby

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POSTS: 1212

Report this Aug. 24 2010, 8:59 pm

Quote: 2takesfrakes @ Aug. 24 2010, 6:36 pm

>Your post reminds me actually, of one of the themes in NEMESIS: Who we are; is it something we're born with? Do we acquire it? Do we choose it? Or does being a "clone" (as was Shinzon, and arguably B-4) resign you to being the "echo" of the "voice"? As to whom Deanna would prefer, Deanna's a counselor and I'm sure she would defer to that in realizing she just wanted Wil.


In rikers case there isnt a distinct "voice" and "echo" We see Will as the original becuase thats our perspective was knowing Will first but in reality neither and both are the original. I think it just shows some of Rikers flaws that he didnt have to deal with on the path he went. His extreme competitiveness destroyed Thomas. Will was the 1st officer of the flag ship he had more clout than most captains but Thomas was just a Lt. stuck in Wills shadow and competitiveness became his downfall instead of his success as in Will's case.

2takesfrakes

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POSTS: 3682

Report this Aug. 24 2010, 11:02 pm

UNTRugby
I hear what you're saying. Really ... I do.
Thomas is just acting on Riker's own impulses.
The argument being that they're still the same,
duplicated person. But Just from Thomas standing
on the left and Riker standing on the right, their
views are slightly different. And those differences
start to add up, as you were pointing out. They may have
begun as the exact same person, but from that moment forward,
the deviation began and that stopped being true ... I believe.

konarciq

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POSTS: 930

Report this Aug. 31 2010, 2:15 am

Um... I must admit I don´t quite get your answers. Is there anything else about Thomas Riker in the series? I only know Second Chances! And there, it was the transporter accident that stranded him on that planet that "destroyed" him (if you have to use that word - at least it significantly slowed down his career). Where does his competitiveness enter?


Btw: I watched the extras with the sixth season this weekend, and there, Jonathan Frakes mentioned that Marina Sirtis actually preferred Thomas Riker over Will Riker ;-) And I have to admit that I agree: I like Thomas a lot better than Will.


He wasn´t just a clone - he WAS the same person, just developed differently during these past eight years that he had been stranded on that planet. Years in which he had time to reflect, which in turn (IMHO) seemed to have made him more serious, more dedicated to his relationship with Deanna. In that way, I believe he was more what Deanna sought in a partner than the "career comes first"-womanizer Will. Thomas only turned back to his career after Deanna practically turned him down referring to her own career - but it seemed clear that she hated to do it. And still he insisted he´d wait for her: "I´ve waited so long, I can wait a little longer."


I thought it a very telling scene, too, when Thomas offered to stay behind on the planet to fix the computer, and have it ready by the next time they could beam down. Made sense to me - he was the one who knew how to do it, and after having lived there for so long, a few more days weren´t likely to hurt. Yet Will got angry with him and told him to come back to the Enterprise.


I wonder how long Thomas has lasted in Starfleet after eight years as a "free" man. Seemed to me something like terraforming, where initiative would be rated higher than the ability of following orders, would fit his "new" character better than the discipline of Starfleet.


If there is nothing wrong with me, then maybe there´s something wrong with the universe? -Dr. Crusher

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Aug. 31 2010, 4:45 am

Thomas joined the maquis, posed as will, and stole the defiant in season 3 of ds9. It was a good follow up episode. The 2 episodes were interesting for the nature versus nurture psychology debate. Thomas's seclusion and enmity gave him different values, but I wouldn't say I liked one better, their experiences changed the man. Lastly, STO gave thomas's story and good and noble ending.

konarciq

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Report this Sep. 01 2010, 9:56 am

Oof... I´ll have to do some research to get what you´re talking about. I know next to nothing about ds9! LOL (What is STO?)


If there is nothing wrong with me, then maybe there´s something wrong with the universe? -Dr. Crusher

UNTRugby

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POSTS: 1212

Report this Sep. 01 2010, 10:33 am

Quote: konarciq @ Sep. 01 2010, 9:56 am

Oof... I´ll have to do some research to get what you´re talking about. I know next to nothing about ds9! LOL (What is STO?)



DS9 is some of the best trek you should watch it and STO is star trek online

konarciq

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POSTS: 930

Report this Sep. 01 2010, 11:06 am

I´ll finish TNG first, thank you :-)


But star trek online might be worth checking out - I´d love to read more about Tom Riker.


 


So thanks for the info!


If there is nothing wrong with me, then maybe there´s something wrong with the universe? -Dr. Crusher

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Nov. 19 2010, 7:44 am

Miklamar wanted to discuss this so I dug it up so he could see our past thoughts.

miklamar

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Report this Nov. 19 2010, 9:05 pm

Thank you, Matthias, but I thought that was one alternate-reality outcome. In another connection, he escaped, and in another, he was killed as a Starfleet officer or something. So, there may not be a definitive biography for him, yet.

Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

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