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Resurrecting Data

Wildish

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POSTS: 168

Report this Sep. 13 2010, 5:14 pm

Maybe the Original survived but was blasted into an alternative past (hint..hint?)


"In the valley of the blind, the one eyed man is king."

arc29

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POSTS: 41

Report this Jan. 05 2011, 9:25 pm

YES IT IS HARD TO REPLACE HIM BUT A NEW LOOK FOR DATA ? SURE IT COULD HELP

ARCAIN29

Commodore.Jim

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POSTS: 8

Report this Jan. 06 2011, 3:51 pm

I cried at the end of Nemesis. I grew up watching Data!
They could bring him back. The new body would be the best bet, the B-4's positronic circuits look a bit damaged beyond repair.

Hey this is the age of CGI and Digital manipulation, if Brent lends his voice, i'm sure they can get Data back.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." -- Garak (Improbable Cause)

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Jan. 06 2011, 4:35 pm

Spiner didn't want to play Data any longer. The TNG movies were done unless Nemesis made a TON of money. It was a fitting end to the character. I would be very unhappy if they cheapened his death by "bringing him back" like they seem to do with every other Trek character that "dies."

I AM KEE-ROCK!!

dave_archer

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POSTS: 8

Report this Jan. 07 2011, 1:01 pm

I believe that Data's death brought the chracter full circle in that he gave his life to protect the ship and captain.  In this altruistic act, he was more human than human.


"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"-Leonard "Bones" McCoy

Matthias Russell

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POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 08 2011, 1:03 pm

Since there will be no more TNG movies, he can be resurrected in the books where you don't need Brent Spiner.

rocketscientist

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POSTS: 10054

Report this Jan. 10 2011, 7:58 am

Quote: dave_archer @ Jan. 07 2011, 1:01 pm

>

>I believe that Data's death brought the chracter full circle in that he gave his life to protect the ship and captain.  In this altruistic act, he was more human than human.

>


Y'know, I didn't see it that way at all. Time and time again in TNG, we all saw Data willing to sacrifice himself for his crewmates. I believe in one episode, he even referenced that he was programmed to do so. We saw him get electrocuted saving Q, of all people.


So, I didn't see Data's sacrifice in Nemesis as being some validation of his humanity. IMO, he was human for a long time, despite being an android.


And, with B4 and that last scene of NEM, where B4 indicates that he has retained at least some of Data's memories, well, I just didn't even feel that Data was necessarily dead. Especially since B4 is (at least visually) physically identical to Data. Compared to TWOK, where we have a very slight, subtle suggestion that Spock might be back (all added in post-production by Harve Bennett and not in Meyer's original cut of the film), Data living again as B4 was a lot more obvious path to resurrection. After all, we'd seen Data "die" a couple of times in TNG already, in "Time's Arrow," and "To Thine Own Self" (I think that was the name of the one where Data got amnesia). Here's another Soong-type android, that looks exactly like Data and is virtually brainless and Data and Geordi were downloading Data's memories and programs into it, so it's pretty-frigging obvious how Data will be back in the next film (that, thanks to NEM bombing at the box office, wasn't made). That was the plan for the next TNG film, a plan that was ultimately used in prequel comic book to ST XI, where Data-resurrected-as-B4 is shown as captain of the Ent-E. In contrast, Spock's body was cooked by radiation. Spock looked totally dead, dead, dead. Coupled to that, I don't think they played the death of Data all that well in the screenplay. No funeral, just the beginning of a wake and Picard's meeting with B4, where Data's dramatic function on TNG was stated, which was a nice scene. It's nice that they tried to do something different from TWOK, but Data's death just cannot possibly compare to Spock's in TWOK, dramatically and in light of the character's almost-immortality. All this is why, despite being a huge TNG fan and a big fan of Data, I just felt cold at his death. I didn't feel like he was really gone at all, unlike Spock, where just about everyone had teary eyes. With Spock, my friends and I all thought he was totally dead (until we heard about the title for the next film (was it months later or over a year?) and the rumors of Spock's ressurection, i.e. Nimoy's involvement in the picture). Also, all that aside, I thought it was stupid to kill him. Not only because B4 was a too-obvious way back that undercut the entire death, but because of the implications of Data's immortality. Data was based on Asimov's robots. Well, in Asimov's "Foundation and Earth," we find out that the human-form robot, Daneel Olivaw, had been alive for hundreds of years, watching over humanity. I kept thinking to myself how cool it would be to have Data looking back on the last TNG story in some sort of framing device, or to incorporate his future self and the present-day TNG crew in a story that took place in two seperate eras. I don't know why they never thought of that (well, I do, it's Rick Berman after all). That's something you can do with Data that you can't even really do with a long-lived Guy like Spock. For all these reasons, I think NEM would've been much better served by killing off another one of the characters, preferably one of the more important ones, like Picard. Really, seeing as they featured Picard and Data in NEM and the other three films, they're probably the better choices. I dunno, maybe killing Riker, after his marriage earlier in the film would've had a lot of dramatic heft to it as well. Whatever, I just think killing off Data was a bad choice and it wasn't even done that well.


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

captain saavik

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Report this Jan. 10 2011, 8:30 am

BRING BACK MY DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I loved data he was one of the best characters in TNG aside from Picard and I wanty him back. I don't care how you bring him back I just want him back

MyLifeIsTrekkish

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POSTS: 86

Report this Jan. 10 2011, 3:24 pm

May I point out that the whole "Brent Spiner is getting older" part of the argument of not bringing back Data is illogical. Data wants to be more human? Make him look older in response to his friends getting older. There. Problem solved.

There comes a time when the odds are against you and the only reasonable course of action is to quit... That's when you turn to Star Trek.

Tureaz'47

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POSTS: 2605

Report this Jan. 10 2011, 8:36 pm

It's just B4 without the tick.


It's strange, being a catalyst for things that move outside.

Tureaz'47

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POSTS: 2605

Report this Jan. 12 2011, 4:34 pm

Perhaps this is where animation could work? Not sure if anyone could replace Spiner. He does like a cocktail or 2.

It's strange, being a catalyst for things that move outside.

dave_archer

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 8

Report this Jan. 12 2011, 4:42 pm

Quote: rocketscientist @ Jan. 10 2011, 7:58 am

Quote: dave_archer @ Jan. 07 2011, 1:01 pm

I believe that Data's death brought the chracter full circle in that he gave his life to protect the ship and captain.  In this altruistic act, he was more human than human.

> Y'know, I didn't see it that way at all. Time and time again in TNG, we all saw Data willing to sacrifice himself for his crewmates. I believe in one episode, he even referenced that he was programmed to do so. We saw him get electrocuted saving Q, of all people.

> So, I didn't see Data's sacrifice in Nemesis as being some validation of his humanity. IMO, he was human for a long time, despite being an android.

> And, with B4 and that last scene of NEM, where B4 indicates that he has retained at least some of Data's memories, well, I just didn't even feel that Data was necessarily dead. Especially since B4 is (at least visually) physically identical to Data. Compared to TWOK, where we have a very slight, subtle suggestion that Spock might be back (all added in post-production by Harve Bennett and not in Meyer's original cut of the film), Data living again as B4 was a lot more obvious path to resurrection. After all, we'd seen Data "die" a couple of times in TNG already, in "Time's Arrow," and "To Thine Own Self" (I think that was the name of the one where Data got amnesia). Here's another Soong-type android that looks exactly like Data and Data and Geordi were downloading Data's memories and programs into it, so it's pretty-frigging obvious how Data will be back in the next film (that, thanks to NEM bombing at the box office, wasn't made). That was the plan for the next TNG film, a plan that was ultimately used in prequel comic book to ST XI, where Data-resurrected-as-B4 is shown as captain of the Ent-E. In contrast, Spock's body was cooked by radiation. Spock looked totally dead, dead, dead. Coupled to that, I don't think they played the death of Data all that well in the screenplay. No funeral, just the beginning of a wake and Picard's meeting with B4, where Data's dramatic function on TNG was stated, which was a nice scene. It's nice that they tried to do something different from TWOK, but Data's death just cannot possibly compare to Spock's in TWOK, dramatically and in light of the character's almost-immortality. All this is why, despite being a huge TNG fan and a big fan of Data, I just felt cold at his death. I didn't feel like he was really gone at all, unlike Spock, where just about everyone had teary eyes. With Spock, my friends and I all thought he was totally dead (until we heard about the title for the next film (was it months later or over a year?) and the rumors of Spock's ressurection, i.e. Nimoy's involvement in the picture). Also, all that aside, I thought it was stupid to kill him. Not only because B4 was a too-obvious way back that undercut the entire death, but because of the implications of Data's immortality. Data was based on Asimov's robots. Well, in Asimov's "Foundation and Empire," we find out that the human-form robot, Daneel Olivaw, had been alive for hundreds of years, watching over humanity. I kept thinking to myself how cool it would be to have Data looking back on the last TNG story in some sort of framing device, or to incorporate his future self and the present-day TNG crew in a story that took place in two seperate eras. I don't know why they never thought of that (well, I do, it's Rick Berman after all). That's something you can do with Data that you can't even really do with a long-lived Guy like Spock. For all these reasons, I think NEM would've been much better served by killing off another one of the characters, preferably one of the more important ones, like Picard. Really, seeing as they featured Picard and Data in NEM and the other three films, they're probably the better choices. I dunno, maybe killing Riker, after his marriage earlier in the film would've had a lot of dramatic heft to it as well. Whatever, I just think killing off Data was a bad choice and it wasn't even done that well.


I think you make some great points here. Very thorough.

"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"-Leonard "Bones" McCoy

Unlisshed

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POSTS: 118

Report this Jan. 13 2011, 6:55 am

Data stated in one episode that it was a relief to know that one day he would die, that that too was a part of being human. So, I was sad when he died (OK, I admit it, I cried) but I didn't see him coming back.
I wouldn't say no to a reboot of Next Gen, though it'd have to be as awesomely cast as ST:2009. Brent Spiner made Data who he was, so it'd be a very tricky part to cast.

"The bartender is an artificial lifeform." later... "Contact the operations officer to assist you." "He's in Ten-Forward... waiting tables."

Trekkie 12

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POSTS: 330

Report this Feb. 14 2011, 6:44 pm

I think that Brent was right that he was getting older, but they could use B-4 to an extent. Instead of looking like Data, they could have B-4 shut down, so they make a new body. With all Data's memories in there. Kind of like the Trills do. Same principal. If they needed to, they could use a Borg-like humaniod for a short period of time, until they could constuct a nice shell, like Lal was. I think a male android would be best for Data's resurrection. I know there would be minor issues of Data's real personality not being completely right, but that might provide a good plot of his struggle to continue his growth, while trying to regain some of Data's lost essence. They could use Lore or Lal's body to help constuct the new body. I think that Geordi LaForge should be the one to make the new Data, since they were best friends. Sorry, I've got to go, so I cannot write all! I've got more ideas!


Pain is a thing of the mind. The mind can be controlled. -Spock

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