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Would Capt. Pike Been Good If There Was No Kirk?

NCC1701RS

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Report this Aug. 16 2010, 9:38 pm

Would Capt. Pike Been Good If There Was No Kirk?


"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name... Enterprise"

Kesfan74656

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Report this Aug. 16 2010, 9:51 pm

Chris Pike in XI comes off to me as a bit less rigid than the Hunter version, a bit more relaxed. Even in the novels, Hunter-Pike, that is one I recall, that featured a quite-older Jose Tyler, aboard the Enterprise A or refit, said 'He ran a tight ship'. That's not to say this one would be loose with the regs..but, I got a sense he was a bit more..colorful?...He of course had the full air of command and authority...But, he saw something in Kirk,perhaps, that in the novels, if I can ref non-canon here, Robert April recognized in a Jim Kirk of teen years, in ''Best Destiny'' something special. He told George Sr. in the book, ''He has a bit of the dirt in him'', i.e., Jim had that extra element of toughness-of an ability to hard-scrabble in a tight spot, that would be of great value as an officer someday. I wonder if, perhaps, this very part of that book-which was ref'd by the writers-inspire them to turn Pike into the mentor-encourager, who sees in Jim, and I think this is quite likely they did, the bulldog, smart kid who could be a huge asset to 'a peacekeeping armada'. Pike played a much more pivotal role here. He gave the galaxy Jim Kirk, and saved him from a mundane, dead-end future....


''If I were captain, i'd open every crack in the universe, and peek inside, just like Captain Janeway does''-Kes, ''The Cloud''

Mirrorgirl

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Report this Aug. 16 2010, 10:08 pm

Quote: Kesfan74656 @ Aug. 16 2010, 9:51 pm

>

>Chris Pike in XI comes off to me as a bit less rigid than the Hunter version, a bit more relaxed. Even in the novels, Hunter-Pike, that is one I recall, that featured a quite-older Jose Tyler, aboard the Enterprise A or refit, said 'He ran a tight ship'. That's not to say this one would be loose with the regs..but, I got a sense he was a bit more..colorful?...He of course had the full air of command and authority...But, he saw something in Kirk,perhaps, that in the novels, if I can ref non-canon here, Robert April recognized in a Jim Kirk of teen years, in ''Best Destiny'' something special. He told George Sr. in the book, ''He has a bit of the dirt in him'', i.e., Jim had that extra element of toughness-of an ability to hard-scrabble in a tight spot, that would be of great value as an officer someday. I wonder if, perhaps, this very part of that book-which was ref'd by the writers-inspire them to turn Pike into the mentor-encourager, who sees in Jim, and I think this is quite likely they did, the bulldog, smart kid who could be a huge asset to 'a peacekeeping armada'. Pike played a much more pivotal role here. He gave the galaxy Jim Kirk, and saved him from a mundane, dead-end future....

>


 


Good stuff, I like your assessment 


Over the years, Star Trek has inspired people of all races and nationalities to strive toward a future where all of mankind’s ills could be healed, where technology worked for the good of everyone, where the unknown was something to be curious about rather than something to be frightened of.

GreenDragon527

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Report this Aug. 17 2010, 12:21 am

Quote: Kesfan74656 @ Aug. 16 2010, 9:51 pm

Chris Pike in XI comes off to me as a bit less rigid than the Hunter version, a bit more relaxed. Even in the novels, Hunter-Pike, that is one I recall, that featured a quite-older Jose Tyler, aboard the Enterprise A or refit, said 'He ran a tight ship'. That's not to say this one would be loose with the regs..but, I got a sense he was a bit more..colorful?...He of course had the full air of command and authority...But, he saw something in Kirk,perhaps, that in the novels, if I can ref non-canon here, Robert April recognized in a Jim Kirk of teen years, in ''Best Destiny'' something special. He told George Sr. in the book, ''He has a bit of the dirt in him'', i.e., Jim had that extra element of toughness-of an ability to hard-scrabble in a tight spot, that would be of great value as an officer someday. I wonder if, perhaps, this very part of that book-which was ref'd by the writers-inspire them to turn Pike into the mentor-encourager, who sees in Jim, and I think this is quite likely they did, the bulldog, smart kid who could be a huge asset to 'a peacekeeping armada'. Pike played a much more pivotal role here. He gave the galaxy Jim Kirk, and saved him from a mundane, dead-end future....



I have this book as well it was good book. Apt observation..they are similar in that way. I liked both pikes as little screen time as they got but i preferred the ST:XI Pike. TOS Pike seemed tougher and more dutiful, while the ST:XI Pike seemed a bit more Kirk-like, more willing to bend the rules, and more likely to sit down and have a drink with u

Kesfan74656

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Report this Aug. 17 2010, 8:22 am

Thanks, gang, for the quotes of my comments. Makes this trekkie feel good. One aspect of Pike as seen in the TOS pilot, was that it was very clear he cared deeply about his crew, as Dr. Boyce stressed to him in their chat in the capt's quarters. I rather tend to think that the fate the series Pike had will not come true in the Abrams timeline. I can't see the writers, even if by some chance they would put Pike in more than a 'communicate with Earth' moment, or long-distance chat between Jim and he(Which would be nice, as he is his mentor, and a rather likely possible event for the next film, just as Admiral Forrest was in Enterprise. I like both these relationships.)The feeling's been with Prime Kirk, is that he and the brass don't always see eye-to-eye, as we all know, but in this new reality, Jim will have a constant advocate, and sounding board. Yes, Kirk is a man in full, he's earned his place, but, glad to lean upon the counsel of Pike and the latter play an ongoing role in his continued growth even as Kirk begins his first missions.


''If I were captain, i'd open every crack in the universe, and peek inside, just like Captain Janeway does''-Kes, ''The Cloud''

PikeFan

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Report this Aug. 17 2010, 12:41 pm

Kesfan74656 wrote: Pike in XI is less rigid than The Cage Pike.


 


I believe the Cage Pike was under more strain at the beginning of the ep. He's coming off a MAJOR battle with the Kaylar, where 7 crew were killed and many injured, including his own yeoman. From his reaction, I gleaned that the Yeoman was a friend of his and that could be why he's a bit harsher than Pike in XI.


~ Never fear, Pikey's here! ~ "Are you from the future?" "He is. I'm not." "Well, that's brilliant. Do they still have sandwiches there?!" - Montgomery Scott and James Kirk

CommodoreSchmidlapp

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Report this Aug. 19 2010, 12:04 am

I'd have to say that ST probably wouldn't have become what it is today if Shat hadn't taken over for Hunter. It was Shat's magnetic personality that drew viewers in, as opposed to Hunter's hard-assed, serious demeanor as Pike. That and Shat's rug had a power of its own...

Mirrorgirl

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Report this Aug. 19 2010, 12:57 am

Quote: CommodoreSchmidlapp @ Aug. 19 2010, 12:04 am

>I'd have to say that ST probably wouldn't have become what it is today if Shat hadn't taken over for Hunter. It was Shat's magnetic personality that drew viewers in, as opposed to Hunter's hard-assed, serious demeanor as Pike. That and Shat's rug had a power of its own...


 


Good point about the rug  


 


But it is true, fortunately for everyone the world over, that Geoffrey Hunter was not available for the re-vamp Star Trek.  Leonard Nimoy has repeatedly stated the same thing, all the while placing the success at the feet of Shatner.


 


I recently heard Malcolm McDowell, who is a notorious dis-liker of William Shatner, make the following statement:


 


"And I said to Patrick Stewart, you should get down on your knees and thank Shatner, it's because of him you can get ten million dollars to be in this movie."


 


Now that's saying something.


 


Geoffrey Hunter was a great actor, but he wasn't a Starship Captain, pure and simple.  The whole show would have been angsty and boring with Christopher Pike as it's main character.


 


Over the years, Star Trek has inspired people of all races and nationalities to strive toward a future where all of mankind’s ills could be healed, where technology worked for the good of everyone, where the unknown was something to be curious about rather than something to be frightened of.

WilburWood

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Report this Aug. 20 2010, 9:52 am

IMO, Pike was too moody and conflicted a character. Without Shatner, TOS wouldn't have gotten off the ground.


AND we wouldn't be here having this discussion!


MORTAL, YOU HAVE EARNED THIS!!

2takesfrakes

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Report this Aug. 20 2010, 11:07 am

I think that, like Riker in Next Generation, Jeffrey Hunter's Christopher Pike would've let loose, a little bit.


 Smiled and joked some more, as the first season evolved. But I liked it, how he was more like Picard


in his being a bit above his crew. A man in control and in command ...


it wouldn't have been as campy with Captain Pike.


WilburWood

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Report this Aug. 20 2010, 5:36 pm

Quote: 2takesfrakes @ Aug. 20 2010, 11:07 am

it wouldn't have been as campy with Captain Pike.

TOS was "campy???" WTF?????

MORTAL, YOU HAVE EARNED THIS!!

WilburWood

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Report this Aug. 20 2010, 5:57 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>IMO, Pike was too moody and conflicted a character. Without Shatner, TOS wouldn't have gotten off the ground.

>AND we wouldn't be here having this discussion!

>
Honestly I'm not too sure that's entirely true. Moody? not really. Conflicted? When is ANY good commanding officer NOT conflicted?

PIKE: What the devil are you putting in there, ice?

BOYCE: Who wants a warm martini?

PIKE: What makes you think I need one?

BOYCE: Sometimes a man will tell his bartender things he'll never tell his doctor. What's been on your mind, Chris, the fight on Rigel seven?

PIKE: Shouldn't it be? My only yeoman and two others dead, seven injured.

BOYCE: Was there anything you personally could have done to prevent it?

PIKE: Oh, I should have smelled trouble when I saw the swords and the armour. Instead of that, I let myself get trapped in that deserted fortress and attacked by one of their warriors.

BOYCE: Chris, you set standards for yourself no one could meet. You treat everyone on board like a human being except yourself, and now you're tired and you

PIKE: You bet I'm tired. You bet. I'm tired of being responsible for two hundred and three lives. I'm tired of deciding which mission is too risky and which isn't, and who's going on the landing party and who doesn't, and who lives and who dies. Boy, I've had it, Phil.

BOYCE: To the point of finally taking my advice, a rest leave?

PIKE: To the point of considering resigning.

Not a man "I'd" follow into battle!

 

It would have been an interesting TREK without Shatner. May or may not have brought us to where we are today in TREKDOM. Either way I'm sure it would have been legendary.


 


Nope, there wouldn't have been TOS without Shatner's performance in WNMHGB.


MORTAL, YOU HAVE EARNED THIS!!

Celedor

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Report this Aug. 20 2010, 6:06 pm

The actor who originally played Captain Pike is from my area (southeastern Wisconsin), and it would have been so cool to have had the Captain of the Enterprise be from here. Alas, we not only lost out on that, but the first man on the Moon shifted from possibly being from here to being from Ohio due to the Apollo 1 fire.

But onto the question: would Pike have been good? I think so. I know Nimoy has said he's glad Shatner was brought in because Shatner played the captain less cerebral than Hunter, which gave Nimoy a his own area of turf to explore; but I like Pike and think he would have been fun to see each week - sort of a cross between Shatner and Picard. The scene between Pike and Boyce is one of my favorite Star Trek scenes in any series.

-Celedor- jwbraun.com

2takesfrakes

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Report this Aug. 20 2010, 9:50 pm

"TOS was "campy???" WTF?????"
Denial's not just a river in Egypt,
WilburWood ... you crack me up, man!

ServalanFan, come on, now ...
"I'd rather the 'campiness' of TOS than the
blandness of Riker, Crusher, Geordi and Troi in TNG."
BLANDNESS??? I found TNG filled-to-bursting with colorful
characters, beautiful women and interesting story-lines.
Jonathan Frakes even directed a couple of such episodes!

CommodoreSchmidlapp

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Report this Aug. 20 2010, 10:37 pm

Quote: 2takesfrakes @ Aug. 20 2010, 11:07 am

I think that, like Riker in Next Generation, Jeffrey Hunter's Christopher Pike would've let loose, a little bit.

 Smiled and joked some more, as the first season evolved. But I liked it, how he was more like Picard

in his being a bit above his crew. A man in control and in command ...

it wouldn't have been as campy with Captain Pike.



Y'know, Frakes, I sometimes get the impression that yer a contrarian... :D

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