Star Trek

You and I will agree to disagree on socialilsm. My study of history and different socialist ideals (statist, not and otherwise) have left me skeptical if not out and out concerned about how humans become under a socialist model.
Again, you and I will agree to disagree. I don't trust socialism-I think it runs contrary to human nature in the long run and ends up destroying itself, or becoming a tyranny.

Fair enough.

I don't revere them-I don't revere any human being. I have respect for them and consider their opinion regarding the formation of this nation and government in general. I have no doubt you have people you respect their opinion and such.

We're splitting hairs again here. My point is still the same.

Because I'm out of the game how?

Because, within the context of the analogy, you prefer not to play. You buy tickets to the game (vote for representatives) but that's where your participation ends.

I'm not sure I follow the gun control point. Most Americans are in favor of the second ammendment. They are just uniformed regarding the actual rate of crime and gun violence.

I was referring to the fact that an overwhelming majority of Americans (around 90%) favor universal background checks on firearm sales. Also that a smaller majority of Americans (around 55-60%) support reinstating the assault weapons ban.

I'm not sure how you think I'm "upset." I disagree with Obama and his vision of America and have stated as such. I am not happy about Obamacare getting shoved through Congress without so much as an opportunity to read the bill.

Is this more sarcasm? How are you not upset? Is there anything Obama has done that you do agree with?

Also, I prefer single-payer so you're preaching to the choir about Obamacare.

I'm sorry you are offended by this.

I wasn't offended at all.

Guess what? America is becoming less more moral, and more indulgent. Honestly, I see more parallels to Rome and America than any other society.

I guess like everything else, it all depends on what you consider to be "moral." For instance, I consider the Founders immoral for condoning slavery but you might disagree. Likewise, you might consider Obama and the Democrats immoral for condoning gay marriage but I would disagree.

You can leave out the profanity to. I find it hard to take people seriously when they do.

No problem.

Oh, and I agree with Bam still to, even if I don't like the word.

You agree that I'm "against liberty" and that I "want us to regress back to a time of fully authoritarian/tyrannical government" or just that I'm a "liar" and a "troll" and that "it's just not possible to have a civilized conversation" with me?

Because, within the context of the analogy, you prefer not to play. You buy tickets to the game (vote for representatives) but that's where your participation ends.

Not that it is any of your business, but I also am in contact with my representatives regarding issues that I am concerned with or that affect my state, my community or the nation as a whole.

I was referring to the fact that an overwhelming majority of Americans (around 90%) favor universal background checks on firearm sales. Also that a smaller majority of Americans (around 55-60%) support reinstating the assault weapons ban.

Fair enough, though the assault weapons ban will not solve gun crime. As I said, Americans also belive that gun crime has risen, when it hasn't. The American public is mostly uniformed. That is concerning to me.


Is this more sarcasm? How are you not upset? Is there anything Obama has done that you do agree with?

Also, I prefer single-payer so you're preaching to the choir about Obamacare.

Why would I be upset? I am upset that Obamacare was pushed through without anyone bothering to read it and think that is a miscarriage of our government system. I disagree with Obama on nearly everything, but being upset implies an emotional reaction that I don't really have.

I just want Obama to stop, that's all.



I guess like everything else, it all depends on what you consider to be "moral." For instance, I consider the Founders immoral for condoning slavery but you might disagree. Likewise, you might consider Obama and the Democrats immoral for condoning gay marriage but I would disagree.

Fair point.



You agree that I'm "against liberty" and that I "want us to regress back to a time of fully authoritarian/tyrannical government" or just that I'm a "liar" and a "troll" and that "it's just not possible to have a civilized conversation" with me?

Since I don't know you, and can hardly make a judgement in the posts we have hear, um, no, I don't agree with that point. I don't really have any opinion on you. I just disagree with your opinions regarding Obama, government in general.

I agree with Bam-Bam about Obama and the points he is making there. You can leave any personal attacks out of this, implied or otherwise.

They say it's immoral for one to force someone else to work for them (slavery,) but in the next sentence, say it's moral for one to force someone else to work for them (Obamacare.)

It's Funny as Hell how You Right-Wing Zealots Love Obama-Bashing So much,Yet STILL Nothing Is Being Done! So what Does that tell You?

Also, what I find interesting is the number of people learning about our history is growing and becoming more prevalent.  When I look around, I'm finding more and more people reading books on our history and openly discussing current affairs - this is a start to the American citizens waking up.

This is exactly why Obama sicked the IRS on people that he doesn't like.

Man, it just keeps-a-coming...

Fast & Furious

Benghazi

IRS v the TEA Party

AP Phone records....

This guy needs to go and all his chronies need to go with him.

But the Obamazombies say none of that ever happened (as stated by DJ a couple of pages ago) - even when their MESSiah admits it.... then they just excuse it as "Bush's fault."

Looks like the IRS was doing more than just going after "Tea Party" groups (as we said over a year ago.)  The IRS has released confidential information to the media, targeted a reporter after an Obama interview.... targetted pro-Israeli groups....    I wonder where the list will go.

I was reading an article that referenced the impeachment articles against Nixon.... it included him using the IRS to attack his enemies.

And don't you just love how Obama calls the IRS an "independent agency"?  I guess he forgot that the IRS is part of the Department of Treasury which works for him....  Obama also said that the IRS must apply laws in an "non-partisan way".... so why did at least one applicant get told by an IRS agent that their application went to "special unit in the D.C. office to determine whether the organization's activities contradict the administration's public policies"  ??

Not that it is any of your business, but I also am in contact with my representatives regarding issues that I am concerned with or that affect my state, my community or the nation as a whole.

No need to get defensive. You've already mentioned that you "express (yourself) through email, phone and voting." I guess, staying within the context of the analogy, you're a die-hard fan with season tickets. My point is, no matter how much you choose to involve yourself you're still not actually playing the game.

Fair enough, though the assault weapons ban will not solve gun crime. As I said, Americans also belive that gun crime has risen, when it hasn't. The American public is mostly uniformed. That is concerning to me.

I share your concerns about the American public being uninformed but I blame the corporate media for that. If the majority of information the public recieved wasn't controlled by six conglomerates all competing for ratings and profits then they wouldn't be as uninformed/misinformed. However, like supporting republicanism, if you support capitalism then you can't really complain and have only yourself to blame. In both ways, you are supporting "limited" or "private" control of wealth/power/information/resources/etc.

That said, you are right about the assault weapons ban and gun crime being down. If the American public were more informed about this then the debate would be about banning handguns, not assault weapons.

I just want Obama to stop, that's all.

Stop trying to compromise with Republicans? Yeah, I wish he'd stop that too. (sarcasm, kinda)

Since I don't know you, and can hardly make a judgement in the posts we have hear, um, no, I don't agree with that point. I don't really have any opinion on you. I just disagree with your opinions regarding Obama, government in general.

I find it hard to believe you have no opinion of me. I have an opinion of you and I have an opinion of Bam. For what it's worth, my opinion of you is much higher than my opinion of Bam.

I agree with Bam-Bam about Obama and the points he is making there. You can leave any personal attacks out of this, implied or otherwise.

Fair enough.

DT,

I have no opinion of you because I don't know you. These discussions are better in person because so much is lost in text. I know, I'm whining about messages on a forum-forgive the indulgence

If I have any opinion of you its that I think you are at least informed about the issues and can state your opinion with a fair amount of clarity. Perhaps as we discuss my opinion will deepen, but for now, I am dealing more in facts and political opinions than personal opinions.

Right now, regarding Obama, I am deeply frustrated that scandals buzz around him yet he takes no responsibility and no one holds him responsible! If Bush were doing the same things he is doing then impeachment would be the word of the day.

But, fireproof, how can we hold Obama responsible for any of this? He's only the president of the most powerful country in the world; can anyone really expect him to know what's going on? I mean, what's he supposed to do? Uphold the constituion? Honor the oath he took? Please, this is 2013! Nobody cares about that stuff anymore! As long as we have our entertainment and a complicit media we need not concern ourselves with anything Obama's doing...after all whatever he does is for our own good. I mean, we deserve it, right? All we need do is dig a bigger hole to fit a couch down in where we've buried our heads. Cozy!

Here's the official answer by the White House regarding all the recent scandals:

I've never thought Obama was incompetent (he just has a different agenda than the Constitution,) so why is Obama wanting us to think that about him now?