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The President Obama appreciation thread

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46303

Report this Apr. 14 2013, 9:58 am

Don't you find it odd that Obama, who demands that everyone pays his "fair share" pays less percentage than the average person?


 


The White House released Obama's taxes for 2012 and here's what was found:


 


- President Obama paid 18 percent in taxes (innstead of the 35% everyone else in the same tax bracket pays) on his earnings for 2012 — he only needed to work until March 5 in order to meet these obligations so often called the price we all must pay to enjoy the freedom and prosperity of America.


- If the Obamas paid the going rate for high earners, they would have had to work twice as long — to May 8.


- The average American will work until Thursday, April 18 (108 days) in order to be free of his or her federal tax burdens.

darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 386

Report this Apr. 14 2013, 11:43 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 14 2013, 9:58 am

>

>Don't you find it odd that Obama, who demands that everyone pays his "fair share" pays less percentage than the average person?

>The White House released Obama's taxes for 2012 and here's what was found:

>- President Obama paid 18 percent in taxes (innstead of the 35% everyone else in the same tax bracket pays) on his earnings for 2012 — he only needed to work until March 5 in order to meet these obligations so often called the price we all must pay to enjoy the freedom and prosperity of America.

>- If the Obamas paid the going rate for high earners, they would have had to work twice as long — to May 8.

>- The average American will work until Thursday, April 18 (108 days) in order to be free of his or her federal tax burdens.

>


"President Barack Obama paid an effective federal tax rate of 18.4 percent in 2012"

"The president's effective tax rate in 2011 was 20.5 percent."

"Effective tax rates vary wildly from one taxpayer to another because of the many tax breaks available, but counting all U.S. taxpayers, the average income tax rate in 2010 was 11.8 percent, according to the Tax Foundation, a business-oriented tax research group in Washington."

"The Obamas were subject to the alternative minimum tax (AMT) - a parallel tax system set up to ensure the affluent do not avoid tax altogether. They paid about $21,220 extra in tax because the president was subject to the AMT in 2012, up from about $12,500 in 2011."

"The wealthiest taxpayers get most of their income from investments - which are taxed at about half the rate of ordinary wages. Virtually all of the Obamas' income was subject to the top tax rate of 39.6 percent in 2012."

"For 2012, the Obamas overpaid their taxes, which entitled them to a refund of $16,815. They chose to apply that total to their 2013 estimated tax. They made the same decision for 2011, applying their $24,515 refund for that year to their 2012 estimated tax."

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/13/us-obama-taxes-idUSBRE93B0Y420130413

(emphasis added)

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this Apr. 15 2013, 1:38 am

Fireproof, you seem kind of intelligent, are you a conservative ? if yes, why ? like I said we need patience, that worm George W Bush had 8 years to screw up this country, we can't ask for utopia IN A DAY..IN HIS SHORT TIME  as  President so far Obama pass health care reform, pass the stimulus bill, which there's more jobs in the private sector, ended the war in IRAN, he KILLED Bin Lade, and now he must inforce tough gun laws, so these freaks can't buy 1,000 rounds of ammo, we need to make guns tougher to get, Obama wants to save you, we don't need kids being shot at at school, we stop this now, you don't understand it now, but Obama is finally making America what it should had been 50 years ago.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46303

Report this Apr. 15 2013, 10:33 am


 


"Happy" Tax Day!

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46303

Report this Apr. 15 2013, 10:49 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 14 2013, 9:58 am

>

>Don't you find it odd that Obama, who demands that everyone pays his "fair share" pays less percentage than the average person?

>The White House released Obama's taxes for 2012 and here's what was found:

>- President Obama paid 18 percent in taxes (innstead of the 35% everyone else in the same tax bracket pays) on his earnings for 2012 — he only needed to work until March 5 in order to meet these obligations so often called the price we all must pay to enjoy the freedom and prosperity of America.

>- If the Obamas paid the going rate for high earners, they would have had to work twice as long — to May 8.

>- The average American will work until Thursday, April 18 (108 days) in order to be free of his or her federal tax burdens.

>

fireproof78

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 342

Report this Apr. 15 2013, 8:54 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Apr. 15 2013, 1:38 am

>

>Fireproof, you seem kind of intelligent, are you a conservative ? if yes, why ? like I said we need patience, that worm George W Bush had 8 years to screw up this country, we can't ask for utopia IN A DAY..IN HIS SHORT TIME  as  President so far Obama pass health care reform, pass the stimulus bill, which there's more jobs in the private sector, ended the war in IRAN, he KILLED Bin Lade, and now he must inforce tough gun laws, so these freaks can't buy 1,000 rounds of ammo, we need to make guns tougher to get, Obama wants to save you, we don't need kids being shot at at school, we stop this now, you don't understand it now, but Obama is finally making America what it should had been 50 years ago.

>


Why am I conservative? Because I don't trust government to create freedom. That isn't the way government works. The more you increase government, the more you decrease freedom. That is the way it works. The government has no, repeat no, incentive to do things efficient, to innovate new ways or discovery new things. The government has a vested interest in maintaining its bureaucracies. 


I don't trust Obama, pure and simple. His killing of bin Laden does little to influence me towards him, as it too little too late. To me, it was pure political timing.


Obama is doing nothing to create private sector jobs. People are leaving the workforce in droves because there is no work to be had. The stimulus bill is a great big flop and healthcare reform will INCREASE costs, not DECREASE them like he promised. Obama's gun control legislation will not stop school shootings.


Bush Jr. didn't screw us in 8 years. We, as a country, have expected the government to come in, fix everything and now we are paying the cost. The government, led by liberals, told banks to lower their requirements for house loans.


I don't buy any of the liberal media propaganda of Obama. None. He expands government power at every turn and gives  me nothing in return. I'll settle for a president who follows the Constitution, not one who complains that it is in his way.

Devinoni

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 57

Report this Apr. 17 2013, 12:05 am

From my observation it seems that the USA should have two presidents to represent their people.


When Bush Jr. was president (a conservative right?) then liberals showed a equal behavioural tendency that was refered to as "Bush Bashing". Now with Obama as president (a liberal right?) it's the conservatives that have engaged in the role of "bashing the president".


That bashing is reflected by a constant whining about and voicing distrust towards the goverment and it's representative. 


As such it seems that the president never represents the people as one and that the unity is more wishfulness than a reality.


 


Socialism, comunism, totalitarianism and democracy all share that same distinctiveness that they want to UNIFY all the people under one system. The way that they achieve it may be different but their goal is the same.


However where unity rules individuality cease to exist, or at least if an individual doesn't feel any affinity towards that unity, she or he becomes an outcast.


 


 


 


 


Make it so.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46303

Report this Apr. 17 2013, 11:04 am

Quote: Devinoni @ Apr. 17 2013, 12:05 am

>When Bush Jr. was president (a conservative right?) then liberals showed a equal behavioural tendency that was refered to as "Bush Bashing
No - Bush is a big government ProReggressive too.  The USA hasn't had a conservative president for decades.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46303

Report this Apr. 17 2013, 11:13 am

Quote: Devinoni @ Apr. 17 2013, 12:05 am

>That bashing is reflected by a constant whining about and voicing distrust towards the goverment and it's representative. 
The USA was designed for the citizens to have a healthy distrust of government.  At that time, we understood that the more government grew, the more freedom is strangled.


 


"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -- George Washington


 


"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." - Thomas Jefferson


"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson


 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46303

Report this Apr. 17 2013, 11:16 am

Quote: Devinoni @ Apr. 17 2013, 12:05 am

>Socialism, comunism, totalitarianism and democracy all share that same distinctiveness that they want to UNIFY all the people under one system. The way that they achieve it may be different but their goal is the same.
And where's liberty?  This is why the USA was NEVER intended to be any one of those.

fireproof78

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 342

Report this Apr. 17 2013, 9:21 pm

To this day there are conservatives who trash Bush Jr. There certainly was not unity behind him as far as conservatives go, and it would be inaccurate to say that only liberals bashed Bush.


Also, I do not bash Obama. I disagree with his policies and his belief in government running everything, and somehow makes it all better.



“True conservatism is the antithesis of ideology. It is the negation of ideology. For conservative is grounded in the past. Its principles are derived from the Constitution, experience, history, tradition, custom, and the wisdom of those who have gone before us—‘the best that has been thought and said.’ It does not purport to know the future. It is about preserving the true, the good, the beautiful. Conservatism views all ideologies with skepticism, and the more zealous and fanatic with hostility.”


In reference to a bill on subsidizing cod fishermen, introduced in the first year of the New Congress, James Madison said;

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, everything, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."
[1]


[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams


darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 386

Report this Apr. 18 2013, 10:24 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 15 2013, 10:49 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Apr. 14 2013, 9:58 am

>

>

>Don't you find it odd that Obama, who demands that everyone pays his "fair share" pays less percentage than the average person?

>The White House released Obama's taxes for 2012 and here's what was found:

>- President Obama paid 18 percent in taxes (innstead of the 35% everyone else in the same tax bracket pays) on his earnings for 2012 — he only needed to work until March 5 in order to meet these obligations so often called the price we all must pay to enjoy the freedom and prosperity of America.

>- If the Obamas paid the going rate for high earners, they would have had to work twice as long — to May 8.

>- The average American will work until Thursday, April 18 (108 days) in order to be free of his or her federal tax burdens.

>


Wow... another conservative is trying to exploit the majority's ignorance of the progressive tax system... What a shocker!


For those not "ignoring" me, Bam is making an unfair comparison between effective and marginal tax rates. No one pays 35% of their earnings in Federal individual income tax.


darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 386

Report this Apr. 18 2013, 10:31 am

Quote: fireproof78 @ Apr. 15 2013, 8:54 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Apr. 15 2013, 1:38 am

>

>

>Fireproof, you seem kind of intelligent, are you a conservative ? if yes, why ? like I said we need patience, that worm George W Bush had 8 years to screw up this country, we can't ask for utopia IN A DAY..IN HIS SHORT TIME  as  President so far Obama pass health care reform, pass the stimulus bill, which there's more jobs in the private sector, ended the war in IRAN, he KILLED Bin Lade, and now he must inforce tough gun laws, so these freaks can't buy 1,000 rounds of ammo, we need to make guns tougher to get, Obama wants to save you, we don't need kids being shot at at school, we stop this now, you don't understand it now, but Obama is finally making America what it should had been 50 years ago.

>

Why am I conservative? Because I don't trust government to create freedom. That isn't the way government works. The more you increase government, the more you decrease freedom. That is the way it works. The government has no, repeat no, incentive to do things efficient, to innovate new ways or discovery new things. The government has a vested interest in maintaining its bureaucracies. 

I don't trust Obama, pure and simple. His killing of bin Laden does little to influence me towards him, as it too little too late. To me, it was pure political timing.

Obama is doing nothing to create private sector jobs. People are leaving the workforce in droves because there is no work to be had. The stimulus bill is a great big flop and healthcare reform will INCREASE costs, not DECREASE them like he promised. Obama's gun control legislation will not stop school shootings.

Bush Jr. didn't screw us in 8 years. We, as a country, have expected the government to come in, fix everything and now we are paying the cost. The government, led by liberals, told banks to lower their requirements for house loans.

I don't buy any of the liberal media propaganda of Obama. None. He expands government power at every turn and gives  me nothing in return. I'll settle for a president who follows the Constitution, not one who complains that it is in his way.


You say you don't trust government to create freedom yet want a president who follows the Constitution that created our government, supposedly, in the name of freedom. You say you want Obama to take responsibility and create jobs yet claim we have become too dependent on government. You say Obama is expanding government power and not giving you anything in return yet in another thread you gloat that the recent wave of gun control debates have given your employer a boost in sales. Assuming you work on commission, you are benefiting directly from Obama's attempt to expand government power.

You claim to want a real discussion but like most conservatives you don't seem to know which side of the argument you want to be on. One minute you're condemning Obama for being a "socialist" who wants to bring "radical change" to the country and the next you're condemning him for continuing Bush's corporatist agenda. The "discussion" becomes even more absurd when social issues are brought up. All conservatives claim to be "pro-freedom" yet the only reason why there is even a debate over social issues is because conservatives want to use the Federal government to limit the social freedom of others.

If you want to have a real discusssion, get with the times on social issues, stop putting the slaveowners who created our government on a pedestal, stop attacking socialism and explain how capitalism, totally unregulated capitalism, would be different or better than our current corporatocracy. Explain how a system that not only condones but rewards and glorifies greed and selfishness can create and secure real freedom for the majority. Explain how corporations "running everything" will "make it all better."

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46303

Report this Apr. 18 2013, 4:51 pm

Wow, is the MESSiah upset....



 


I saw multiple photos of him quite upset because he couldn't force the Senate to pass more anti-gun laws.  But of course, knowing Obama, he'll just go around Congress again with more executive orders attacking the US Constitution and our liberties.

fireproof78

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 342

Report this Apr. 19 2013, 12:09 am

DT,


you miss many points of my posts, but that's ok. I want discussion, so please explain to me how government secures more freedoms for me?


Also, I don't want Obama to create any jobs. I don't want him to have anything to do with the job's market. That's not his job. By the way, I mentioned the gun control thing as a point that the market will balance itself, not that Obama has done anything exciting regarding that market, despite the hype.


Explain to me how government running everything makes it all better?


Let me back up a little. I used to believe that if the government could just make laws for people to be better, then life would be better. I used to wish for a government that would come in and make everything fair, like the referee at a game. I want people to be able to treat each other nicely and to treat others they like they want to be treated. I thought, more laws would mean better society.


The problem is, as I learned and paid more attention, more laws does not make better people. People are still going to be greedy-that is human nature. You will not fix that through government mandates. I don't think unbriddled greed is the answer-no where have I argued for a completely deregulated market. I am not a libertarian, and if you read the quotes I cited, from Founding Fathers, you'll note that there is a general threat to liberty if the government keeps asserting himself for the general good. As one of my friends put it goverment is the antithesis of freedom. To increase government is to decrease liberty.


I get why people like socialism, but it is not for me. For myself, speaking from my personal experience and research, people given the freedom to do what they like with their money, and not having to worry about 60% of their income going to various government pots, are more generous. There was a family in my community, no relation to myself or anyone else, who just had a baby and needed some help. The government didn't step in and provide meals-their friends and community did.


Now, there has been banter about regarding the definition of socialism and some will say that what we did is socialist-ok, fine, call it that. My research in to socialism has not indicated that it is defined that way, despite arguments to the contrary. Point is, people stepped up to help with no government intervention. There is no compassion in government programs while people can be very compassionate if given the opportunity.


Someone needs to tell me how we are in this black and white situation of either "corporations" or "the government" running everything, like somehow its a one or the other thing. I mean, I'm not a Buddhist but there is something to be said for finding a middle way here.


Talking about Obama-I don't expect him to do anything to "create jobs" because that isn't government's role. He hasn't actually created jobs and I wonder when the economy becomes his responsibility and not blaming it on Bush Jr. I truly wonder that...

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