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The President Obama appreciation thread

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Nov. 20 2012, 10:49 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 20 2012, 9:08 am

>

>See? Where does it end? What happens when your employer decides he doesn't want to cover your medication? Why should we even have doctors and surgeons? If we get sick or injured it's God's will, right?

>
An employer has the choice as to what compensation to their employees based on the market.  If an employee doesn't like the compensation (including benefits,) they also have a choice and can go somewhere else.


Why shouldn't we have doctors or surgeons?  Remember, Luke (as in the Gospel of Luke) was a doctor.


As for "God's will"... it was His will that Adam & Eve didn't disobey and eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and we saw what happened...


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Nov. 20 2012, 7:54 pm

Guess white men aren't considered "constituents" by Obama....


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Nov. 23 2012, 9:11 am

Just a reminder of those agreeing with Obama that the "rich" aren't "paying their fair share."


 



 


But the data shows they're paying a lot more.... it's the other end that isn't.

darmokattanagra

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Report this Nov. 23 2012, 3:50 pm

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/images/wealth/Net_worth_and_financial_wealth.gif


 


Poor "rich" people.


 

darmokattanagra

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Report this Nov. 23 2012, 3:54 pm

BTW, why does your graph only add up to 85%?

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Nov. 23 2012, 3:59 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 23 2012, 3:54 pm

>

>BTW, why does your graph only add up to 85%?

>
Learn to read a graph.... it's comparing specific segments, not 100% of the populace.  The first two groups are included in the top 20%....


One glaring problem that even the most obtuse person can see- while the top 1% earns less than the bottom 40%, the top 1% is paying almost 5.5 TIMES more in taxes.  (And not all of that bottom 40% is "poverty" level.... supporting even more that the "rich" are overpaying taxes.)


Why do you want to discriminate?

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Nov. 24 2012, 3:45 am

Yet an obtuse person obviously can't see that the entirety of people living in poverty are being lumped in with a greater number of people who are not...

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darmokattanagra

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Report this Nov. 24 2012, 12:11 pm

Here's another graph from the same conservative website:


http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/charts/2012/top10-percent-income-earners-680.jpg


According to this, not only is the top 1% making more than the bottom 40% but they are actually making more than the bottom 50%. In other words, the ~3,000,000 people at the top are making 4% more than the ~150,000,000 people at the bottom.


Even the most obtuse person can look at this data and see that the problem is not how much more the rich are paying in taxes but how much more they are "earning."

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Nov. 24 2012, 12:29 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 24 2012, 12:11 pm

>Even the most obtuse person can look at this data and see that the problem is not how much more the rich are paying in taxes but how much more they are "earning."
Very communist/Marxist/Nazi of you, but no surprise.  Too bad you don't read history - it's never worked anywhere.  Are you still upset that Hitler lost?


Why is it a problem for people to earn their own wealth?  Why should people's liberty be taken away and stop them from earning all they can?  Why can't they trade their skills/abilities for money?  Why should the people who create be the slaves of those who don't?  Why do you think that you have the right to steal it from them?


So.... now using your viewpoint, the rest of the world can just steal whatever it wants from the USA because most people in the USA are in in the top 1% "rich" of the world.


 


You'd really hate working for me.... I pay based on a worker's contribution (not their "need") - if worker A creates twice as many widgets as worker B, worker A earns twice as much pay as the other.


Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Nov. 24 2012, 2:26 pm

The rich are "slaves" to the poor? That claim is laughable at best. If the rich didn't outsource so many jobs, there'd be more people working, more people capable of supporting themselves, and less people needing social programs. If the rich are slaves, it is because that's a position they willingly placed themselves in.

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darmokattanagra

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Report this Nov. 24 2012, 2:56 pm

"Very communist/Marxist/Nazi of you, but no surprise.  Too bad you don't read history - it's never worked anywhere.  Are you still upset that Hitler lost?"


Hitler was a capitalist but whatever. Who cares about facts?


"You'd really hate working for me.... I pay based on a worker's contribution (not their "need") - if worker A creates twice as many widgets as worker B, worker A earns twice as much pay as the other."


And how much do you pay yourself for your contribution? How is your job any more important than your employees? Could you stay in business without them? Could you have built it without them?


If you want them to pay more in taxes, give them an equal share of the profits they work to create.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Nov. 24 2012, 3:02 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 24 2012, 2:56 pm

>Hitler was a capitalist but whatever. Who cares about facts?
That's a very blatant lie.... 


Hitler said he was the enemy of capitalism, saying, "We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions."


Capitalism requires freedom, which is exactly the opposite of what Hitler was trying to do.   Look it up: Nazi = National SOCIALIST Party.... Hitler had complete control over businesses.  (That was point #13 of the Nazi's "unalterable" 25-Point Program.)


 


Why do you bother?  If you want to lie about things, then we're done and I'll ignore you like the others that lie.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Nov. 24 2012, 3:11 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 24 2012, 2:56 pm

>And how much do you pay yourself for your contribution? How is your job any more important than your employees? Could you stay in business without them? Could you have built it without them?

>If you want them to pay more in taxes, give them an equal share of the profits they work to create.
What I earn is none of your business.  We pay more for a meal at Ruth's Chris than one at McDonald's because of the value of the meal.  Or we pay more for a bigger/better HDTV than a smaller/worse TV.  Or for a Bugatti than a Yugo.  Same with each worker's contributions -  some workers' contributions are more valuable than others.  Anyone can sweep the floor, but not everyone has the ability to run a business or manage others or create a product.  When you go see a surgeon, who's skills are more valuable, the surgeons or the person scheduling the appointment?  If a worker doesn't like their compensation, they can vote with their feet and go to another company or start their own - that's liberty/capitalism.


I pay according to their contributions - if I paid more than they contribute, I'd be out of business.... but you don't understand simple business principles.  The business owner takes the risk, but people like you don't want them to reap the rewards of any success they might achieve.  You just want rewards without having to actually work for them.


Oh.... I don't want them to necessarily pay more taxes - as long as we have this wealth destroying income tax, I want everyone to be treated equally and pay equal taxes on each dollar they earn - no discrimination... And no redistribution of wealth via socialist programs.


Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Nov. 24 2012, 3:16 pm

"Hitler was a capitalist"

Indeed. Without the capitalist bankers and industrialists, which Hitler fully supported, his refine would never have gained power.

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darmokattanagra

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Report this Nov. 25 2012, 11:50 am

Hitler also said this: "Our adopted term ‘Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."

And this: "I absolutely insist on protecting private property ... we must encourage private initiative."


You're right though, why bother? It's useless to argue with someone who doesn't understand the differences between a communist and a Nazi and who thinks that capitalism is synonymous with freedom.


The sad irony is that you are the one enslaving those who create. You troll around the internet all day while your employees "make widgets." They generate the profits while you try to convince us "ProRegressives" that we need to get rid of education, safety nets, minimum wage, unions and anything else that threatens your freedom to exploit.


Then you pretend like they have the freedom to go somewhere else or start their own business. As if another business will not have the same policies that you do. As if they have the capital to start their own business. As if we can all be self-employed millionaires. As if capitalism isn't just one big pyramid scheme.

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