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The President Obama appreciation thread

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46293

Report this Nov. 08 2012, 9:20 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 08 2012, 8:53 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Nov. 08 2012, 6:38 am

Quote: VulcanKat @ Nov. 08 2012, 5:50 am

>

>

>

>I guess no one considers religious liberty of any importance.

>
Well... not the MESSiah and his zombies....

"His anti-Biblical views - he believes in abortion and redefining marriage.  He tries to frame it as getting the government out of our personal choices, but the USA was built on Biblical principles.  I'm definitely not saying that this should be a theocracy, but that doesn't mean we "transform" America and throw out our founding principles."

You're the one who wants to impose your religious views on the rest of the country.

Really?  Show me where I ordered people to go to church or what to pray or how much to pay in tithes....  (Although I have shown many instances of our Founding Fathers declaring a day of prayer.)


Yes, we know several people here hate the principles that the USA was founded on. They, including you, have made it quite apparent  I get it...., like Obama getting dreams from his father, many have been indoctrinated to support anti-Constitutional / anti-God views.  But I love the principles that founded the USA and I took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States.  Among the liberties guaranteed by the Constitution is the freedom of religion - and the president and his cronies have been attacking religion (and other basic God-given rights) for years.  Why is it that Obama tells us that we must support things that God says is wrong?

darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 386

Report this Nov. 08 2012, 10:05 am

You said we can't "throw out our founding principles" in reference to issues like gay marriage and abortion. If your side really believed in liberty and freedom of religion we wouldn't even be arguing about these issues.


Your only defense seems to be that the Founders were Christian. Who cares? They also had slaves and wore stupid wigs, does that mean we should too?

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46293

Report this Nov. 08 2012, 10:18 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 08 2012, 10:05 am

>

>You said we can't "throw out our founding principles" in reference to issues like gay marriage and abortion. If your side really believed in liberty and freedom of religion we wouldn't even be arguing about these issues.

>Your only defense seems to be that the Founders were Christian. Who cares? They also had slaves and wore stupid wigs, does that mean we should too?

>
Why wouldn't the those on the side of religion and freedom argue about life and family?  Why is it that we're told to shut up and sit down while those that attack the principles of religion and the Constitution are free to go about their business?  That's like telling one army they must lay down and be killed by their enemy!


One thing you seem to be doing is confusing liberty with lawlessness & anarchy.  Nothing is further from the truth.  Liberty doesn't mean I can do anything I want - there are some minimal prohibitions.


As I've pointed out several times, while most were, not all of the Founding Fathers were Christians.  But... the founding principles of our government is based on the Bible.  All you have to do is read their personal writings and read the record of the discussions.  Why do you think President Washington did what he did immediately after his first inauguration?


But Obama tells us that government is now superior to God and that government can make you support anti-God principles.


 


That laws of nature and nature's God are logical.  Water is wet and fire burns.  While we don't always understand, there are reasons God set things up the way He did.  You don't have to believe it, but then again, you don't have to believe in gravity either.  That doesn't mean it doesn't exist and that it's not set up in such a way that's logical and correct.  There are absolutes and there are things that are right and wrong.


And with everything, there are consequences to what we do - both good and bad.  The consequence of liberty is prosperity and happiness.  And just as slavery was wrong, our Founders compromised and allowed it to exist - with long-term disastrous consequences to that decision.


VulcanKat

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 715

Report this Nov. 08 2012, 12:25 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Nov. 08 2012, 9:20 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 08 2012, 8:53 am

>

>

>

>

>I guess no one considers religious liberty of any importance.

>
Well... not the MESSiah and his zombies....


Hey, it's the government who is imposing their beliefs on a religion. If a religion believes abortion is murder, then women have a choice to get their contraception elsewhere-a church doesn't need to defy its conscience. The US government doesn't have a right to tell a church what it's to believe and that is guaranteed by the first amendment. You should be afraid of a government that tells a religion what to believe because it sets a bad precedent...what else will it force people to do? It obviously feels that its above its own laws.

Sehlat123

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 496

Report this Nov. 08 2012, 12:51 pm

Quote: VulcanKat @ Nov. 08 2012, 12:25 pm

>

>Hey, it's the government who is imposing their beliefs on a religion. If a religion believes abortion is murder, then women have a choice to get their contraception elsewhere-a church doesn't need to defy its conscience. The US government doesn't have a right to tell a church what it's to believe and that is guaranteed by the first amendment. You should be afraid of a government that tells a religion what to believe because it sets a bad precedent...what else will it force people to do? It obviously feels that its above its own laws.

>


Exactly. Separation of Church and State was first written by jefferson to a church talking about this very thing. The point is that the church more important than the government. If the government gets rid of the church, then they have no competition. We have seen this numerous times. You know, Nazi Germany did the same  thing. They forced the catholic church to preach their agenda. The soviets abolished all the churches. And of course, the Occupation of Bajor...


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46293

Report this Nov. 08 2012, 1:47 pm

Quote: VulcanKat @ Nov. 08 2012, 12:25 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Nov. 08 2012, 9:20 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 08 2012, 8:53 am

>

>

>

>

>

>I guess no one considers religious liberty of any importance.

>
Well... not the MESSiah and his zombies....

Hey, it's the government who is imposing their beliefs on a religion. If a religion believes abortion is murder, then women have a choice to get their contraception elsewhere-a church doesn't need to defy its conscience. The US government doesn't have a right to tell a church what it's to believe and that is guaranteed by the first amendment. You should be afraid of a government that tells a religion what to believe because it sets a bad precedent...what else will it force people to do? It obviously feels that its above its own laws.

clap clap.gif photo

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46293

Report this Nov. 08 2012, 1:57 pm

Quote: Sehlat123 @ Nov. 08 2012, 12:51 pm

Quote: VulcanKat @ Nov. 08 2012, 12:25 pm

>

>

>Hey, it's the government who is imposing their beliefs on a religion. If a religion believes abortion is murder, then women have a choice to get their contraception elsewhere-a church doesn't need to defy its conscience. The US government doesn't have a right to tell a church what it's to believe and that is guaranteed by the first amendment. You should be afraid of a government that tells a religion what to believe because it sets a bad precedent...what else will it force people to do? It obviously feels that its above its own laws.

>

Exactly. Separation of Church and State was first written by jefferson to a church talking about this very thing. The point is that the church more important than the government. If the government gets rid of the church, then they have no competition. We have seen this numerous times. You know, Nazi Germany did the same  thing. They forced the catholic church to preach their agenda. The soviets abolished all the churches. And of course, the Occupation of Bajor...

What amazes me is the number of people in the USA who think that the phrase "separation of church and state" is actually in the Constitution.  When I was in the military, I got into an argument with a chaplain who tried to tell a bunch of us that it was....


And then there are those that say it really is "separation of church FROM state" and want to outlaw all Christians from goverment (even going as far as taking away our right to vote because they don't want religion affecting politics.)


 


 


"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams, 11 October 1798


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46293

Report this Nov. 08 2012, 1:58 pm

Quote: Sehlat123 @ Nov. 08 2012, 12:51 pm

Quote: VulcanKat @ Nov. 08 2012, 12:25 pm

>

>

>Hey, it's the government who is imposing their beliefs on a religion. If a religion believes abortion is murder, then women have a choice to get their contraception elsewhere-a church doesn't need to defy its conscience. The US government doesn't have a right to tell a church what it's to believe and that is guaranteed by the first amendment. You should be afraid of a government that tells a religion what to believe because it sets a bad precedent...what else will it force people to do? It obviously feels that its above its own laws.

>

Exactly. Separation of Church and State was first written by jefferson to a church talking about this very thing. The point is that the church more important than the government. If the government gets rid of the church, then they have no competition. We have seen this numerous times. You know, Nazi Germany did the same  thing. They forced the catholic church to preach their agenda. The soviets abolished all the churches. And of course, the Occupation of Bajor...

What amazes me is the number of people in the USA who think that the phrase "separation of church and state" is actually in the Constitution.  When I was in the military, I got into an argument with a chaplain who tried to tell a bunch of us that it was....


And then there are those that say it really is "separation of church FROM state" and want to outlaw all Christians from goverment (even going as far as taking away Christians' right to vote or holding office because they don't want religion affecting politics.)


 


 


"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams, 11 October 1798


darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 386

Report this Nov. 09 2012, 9:56 am

It's amazing how you all twist marriage equality and the freedom to do with your own body as you please into some convoluted conspiracy against Christians.


Your freedom of religion is not at stake here. Stop playing the victim.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46293

Report this Nov. 09 2012, 10:16 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 09 2012, 9:56 am

>

>It's amazing how you all twist marriage equality and the freedom to do with your own body as you please into some convoluted conspiracy against Christians.

>Your freedom of religion is not at stake here. Stop playing the victim.

>
Wrong - you tell us that we not only must accept an attack on religion, but pay for it....  Telling me to not only accept the redefinition of marriage and the murder of a baby, but to pay for them is a blatant attack.


 


Look - I don't force you to go to church and pay for it or make you believe that Christ is God, so why do you want to force me to accept, support & pay for your agenda that attacks religion?

darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 386

Report this Nov. 09 2012, 11:33 am

Again, you're twisting these issues into an attack on your religion. It is your side that wants to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage. It is your side that wants to overturn Roe v. Wade.


No one on the left is trying to ban Christianity.

VulcanKat

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 715

Report this Nov. 09 2012, 3:49 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 09 2012, 11:33 am

>

>Again, you're twisting these issues into an attack on your religion. It is your side that wants to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage. It is your side that wants to overturn Roe v. Wade.

>No one on the left is trying to ban Christianity.

>


 


No you're just trying to change it. According to that logic, we have to send our children to get an abortion if the government deems it legal and we have to pay for it too. Not everything should be imported from China. This has everything to do with religious rights. Please don't go around telling us what to do. If you want to get your stuff done elsewhere you have that option and this has nothing to do with Roe v. Wade.

VulcanKat

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 715

Report this Nov. 09 2012, 4:00 pm

Not that I support Roe v. Wade, I don't. Eventually a fetus is another human being it just, unfortunately, doesn't have any rights yet. That'll come when people are ready.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46293

Report this Nov. 09 2012, 4:17 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Nov. 09 2012, 11:33 am

>

>Again, you're twisting these issues into an attack on your religion. It is your side that wants to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage. It is your side that wants to overturn Roe v. Wade.

>No one on the left is trying to ban Christianity.

>
The definition of marriage has been known for thousands of years - you're just trying to redefine it.  As for overturning Roe v. Wade.... SCOTUS didn't use the Constitution to make that ruling - they just made their own law.  The protection of life is paramount to any civilization.


And now the government is ordering us that all of us must now pay for both of those things - a direct violation of most religions.  (Could you imagine the outcry if the government forced Muslims to eat pork!?!?!?)


Usurping Christianity is worse than just banning it.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46293

Report this Nov. 09 2012, 4:18 pm

Quote: VulcanKat @ Nov. 09 2012, 4:00 pm

>

>Not that I support Roe v. Wade, I don't. Eventually a fetus is another human being it just, unfortunately, doesn't have any rights yet. That'll come when people are ready.

>
And to many people, our Declaration of Independence says that we have the right to life.... and that includes an unborn baby.  They have their own brainwaves, fingerprints, DNA, etc.


 


I've heard it asked, "What's the difference between a baby with rights and a baby without?"  The answer is, "About three inches."


And now there's discussion about taking that same thought process and murdering others because a child is under a certain age or one that has disabilities don't have the right to live....  And of course... at the taxpayers expense.


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