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The President Obama appreciation thread

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 27 2012, 8:56 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Oct. 26 2012, 10:22 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 26 2012, 4:36 pm

Quote: VulcanKat @ Oct. 26 2012, 4:20 pm

>

>

>

>Why do people label there beliefs? Left or right or middle. What that does is create clicks where you have to believe in a set of principles in order to be considered part of that click. Therefore, you don't form your own opinions based on objective analysis so much. That's why we have these rediculous "liberals" vs. "conservative" fights. 

>
Because labels are supposed to explain something - they're supposed to have meaning.  When someone says they're a Constitutionalist, that's supposed to mean something the opposite of a communist/socialist... or labeling someone based on the citizenship (American vs. X.)  When someone says that they're married, that's a label that's supposed to mean something.

But, yes, labels can be used to separate people - especially when a label is a misnomer or when a person doesn't quite fit 100% of the rest of the group (but who does?)

It's funny you say that labels are supposed to mean something considering you use them so inaccurately.

No - you just disagree with me telling the truth.


 


Let's go non-political.  Let's say we're comparing two groups (doesn't matter if it's people or money or items or whatever.)  Group A has 5000 and increases by 1000.  Group B has 5 and increases by 20.  Both groups say they grew the most and, depending on their perspective, both are correct and incorrect.  If we look at just the numbers 1000 vs. 20, Group A grew the most, but if we look at percentages, 20% vs. 400%, Group B grew the most.


This is why it's important to define our words.  Words have meaning and some of us actually try to use the words correctly instead of redefining things.


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 27 2012, 9:03 am

Quote: maihem @ Oct. 26 2012, 11:16 pm

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>Yeah spend ur way out of debt that works really well and obama care is just socialism. Take obamacare health or pay a fine that sounds like freedom. And who pays for this, you do, the tax payer with higher and higher insurance preiums this includes your car insurance, insurance for your house medical insurance thru your employer eventaully driving preiums so high it will put many out of business and your job along with it. Oh yeah where are all the jobs Obama has created???? Yeah the gov has all the answers for a people who want to be taken care of and led around like cattle to a slaughter house. Wake up before we wake in a socialist state.

>
Sadly, we're already in a socialist state, but because it's not officially called that, people don't realize it.  The question is, how long before the majority of people do realize it and will it be in time to restore our Constitutional Republic?


FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 27 2012, 9:29 am

So why, in Obama's "transparent" administration, is he still refusing to answer questions about Benghazi?  Is it because people are starting to question his lies?

darmokattanagra

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POSTS: 386

Report this Oct. 27 2012, 2:45 pm

capitalism, noun

-an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

socialism, noun

-a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Oct. 27 2012, 3:25 pm

Leave it up to BamBam to see a society that is in part defined by capitalism run amok and call it "socialism."

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FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 27 2012, 3:36 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Oct. 27 2012, 2:45 pm

>

>capitalism, noun

-an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

socialism, noun

-a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

>
Very good.... now apply it....  Government controls companies via regulations, or just plain takes them over and fires people (like at GM) and determining which ones should live or die  (And if you don't lobby/bribe Congress, they attack you)....  Federal government owns most of the natural resources and refuses to let us use them.  Federal government confiscates land from the states and individuals (take a look at the Federal Real Property Profile)...  Federal government redistributes money/capital (both to corporations and individuals)....  Federal government controls the medical care system..... Federal Government controls the education system.


We could go on and on and on... but the basic mentality of our government is that they can take what they want and tax and control what little they leave behind.


 



FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 27 2012, 3:43 pm

darmokattanagra

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Report this Oct. 27 2012, 6:11 pm

War is peace.


Slavery is freedom.


Ignorance is strength.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 27 2012, 6:30 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Oct. 27 2012, 6:11 pm

>

>War is peace.

>Slavery is freedom.

>Ignorance is strength.

>
You're channeling your MESSiah and the rest of the ProRegressives....


Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Oct. 27 2012, 7:42 pm

Wow. BamBam just called our Founding Fathers socialists.

darmokattanagra

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Report this Oct. 27 2012, 8:53 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 27 2012, 6:30 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Oct. 27 2012, 6:11 pm

>

>

>War is peace.

>Slavery is freedom.

>Ignorance is strength.

>
You're channeling your MESSiah and the rest of the ProRegressives....


I didn't vote for Obama and I'm definitely not in favor of regression.

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Oct. 28 2012, 4:07 am

Okay, now I have a moment to elaborate on my last post. (Sorry, I worked an eleven hour shift, so I didn't Gabe much time.)

BamBam implied that a government-run education system is socialist. Well, many if the Founding Fathers wanted such a system. Thomas Jefferson was the most vocal in this, often pushing for a publicly paid-for universal education system.

BamBam also implied that restrictions on corporations is socialist. Well, that's something that the Founding Fathers all agreed on; corporations MUST be restricted. Not only did they agree, they implemented said restrictions. They wanted corporations to have as little power as possible. And can you blame them? Pre-Revolution colonists were forced to deal with unregulated corporations, namely the East India Company. These corporations demanded high taxes while simultaneously restricting private commerce. The Founding Fathers didn't want to see this happen again.

In conclusion, what BamBam calls socialism, the Founding Fathers called necessary.

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DS9_FOREVER!

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Report this Oct. 28 2012, 1:37 pm

Quote: Invader_Wishfire @ Oct. 28 2012, 4:07 am

>Okay, now I have a moment to elaborate on my last post. (Sorry, I worked an eleven hour shift, so I didn't Gabe much time.) BamBam implied that a government-run education system is socialist. Well, many if the Founding Fathers wanted such a system. Thomas Jefferson was the most vocal in this, often pushing for a publicly paid-for universal education system. BamBam also implied that restrictions on corporations is socialist. Well, that's something that the Founding Fathers all agreed on; corporations MUST be restricted. Not only did they agree, they implemented said restrictions. They wanted corporations to have as little power as possible. And can you blame them? Pre-Revolution colonists were forced to deal with unregulated corporations, namely the East India Company. These corporations demanded high taxes while simultaneously restricting private commerce. The Founding Fathers didn't want to see this happen again. In conclusion, what BamBam calls socialism, the Founding Fathers called necessary.


 


Concerning education. The Founding Fathers are rolling over in there grave because there is such a thing as the Federal Department of Eduacation. They favored states rights, not the Federal government.


Business does need to be kept in check. Specifically what they were referring to were the banks. Now we have 5 banks that are "to big to fail".


I just found this great Star Trek MB!!  photo ac1685424929087bf1b7e7e0d734f861.jpg

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Oct. 28 2012, 1:54 pm

The Founding Fathers wanted universal education. They recognized education as essential for the prosperity of a nation, especially a new one like the United States, both economically and to sustain a self-governing government (republic).

And they hated corporations. Now, big banks would certainly qualify as corporations, but they were against any form of corporation, which is why they imposed massive restrictions on them

 photo spok_zps253ab564.gif

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 28 2012, 3:47 pm

Quote: DS9_FOREVER! @ Oct. 28 2012, 1:37 pm

Quote: Invader_Wishfire @ Oct. 28 2012, 4:07 am

>

>Okay, now I have a moment to elaborate on my last post. (Sorry, I worked an eleven hour shift, so I didn't Gabe much time.) BamBam implied that a government-run education system is socialist. Well, many if the Founding Fathers wanted such a system. Thomas Jefferson was the most vocal in this, often pushing for a publicly paid-for universal education system. BamBam also implied that restrictions on corporations is socialist. Well, that's something that the Founding Fathers all agreed on; corporations MUST be restricted. Not only did they agree, they implemented said restrictions. They wanted corporations to have as little power as possible. And can you blame them? Pre-Revolution colonists were forced to deal with unregulated corporations, namely the East India Company. These corporations demanded high taxes while simultaneously restricting private commerce. The Founding Fathers didn't want to see this happen again. In conclusion, what BamBam calls socialism, the Founding Fathers called necessary.

 

Concerning education. The Founding Fathers are rolling over in there grave because there is such a thing as the Federal Department of Eduacation. They favored states rights, not the Federal government.

Business does need to be kept in check. Specifically what they were referring to were the banks. Now we have 5 banks that are "to big to fail".

Exactly.... I've explained this multiple times here and have cited the writings of our Founders.... and Wishfire knows this, continuing to choose to say the Founders wanted just the opposite of what they actually wrote (which is why s/he's on my 'ignore' list.)  In this case, trying to make us believe that something that was okay for a state was actually meant for the federal government - exactly the opposite of what the founding fathers did.  I've never understood why some people continue to purposefully state things that they know aren't true - they didn't learn the lesson of the boy who cried wolf.


If the Founding Fathers had wanted a national government controlling education, they would have listed it as an enumerated power.


Religion was also extremely important to our Founding Fathers (just read their writings,) but they didn't want to control it via the Federal government.  (Although some states did have state religions.)


And, yes, the Founding Fathers were concerned about banks of the time - and a big reason was because they were able to print their own money - which is why they fixed that via the Constitution.  The goal of the commerce clause was to open up commerce, not crush/control it - anyone that reads the writings of our Founding Fathers knows this.


Most of the Founding Fathers were businessmen, owning their own businesses.... yet the ProRegressives here continue to say that the Founding Fathers were essentially self masochistic - wanting to harm themselves and their businesses by pushing the federal government they created to control / crush their own businesses.


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