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The trekbuff review of STXI... !SPOILERS!

TaoTrek

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Report this Jun. 22 2010, 7:08 pm

Thanks for re-posting this, TB. I always enjoy reading the perspective of a long-term fan.

While I greatly enjoyed the movie(first one I've seen in theatres), I too, had a problem with the Spock/Uhura pairing. Student/Mentor->Victim/Comforter->Lover/Lover??? I've studied pairings for an entirely different franchise and this just makes NO sense.

I'll still hold on to the "Alternate Universe" theory, though.
;)

Swidden

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Report this Jun. 22 2010, 8:06 pm

Well thought out review Trekbuff.

I agree with you in most areas both good and bad. A couple things caught my eye though.

1) Nero gets the red matter from Nimoy/Spock's ship after he is captured by Nero and Co.
2) Uhura does mention the words "Alternate time line" or "universe" when they are discussing this on the bridge. If necessary I can try to come up with the exact minute count in the film where it happens.

There were a lot of things I liked about this film. I think it caught much of the feel of TOS character wise. There are some parts that are really weak. Delta Vega's location and some of the science about supernova's are my biggest complaint's. DV's location in TOS' "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is at the edge of the known galaxy and Vulcan is supposed to be much closer in. The idea of the level of threat that a supernova posed to the galaxy beyond Romulus tells me that whoever acted as science adviser on the scripts was not paying close enough attention to let that slip through.

KALEL

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Report this Jun. 22 2010, 9:10 pm

Well, TB, I have to say...bravo! :cool:  That was well thought out, and explained in plain, simple terms. Well done. One thing that Swidden mentioned that I remembered from the movie was the fact that while the crew was on the bridge trying to dope out what exactly was going on, Uhura did say something about about an "alternate time line" or "alternate universe". This was after Kirk had returned to the ship with Scotty, I believe.
But, I'm with you. I really loved this movie, and I can't wait for the next one. And like you, I hope with the same cast.

grigori

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Report this Jun. 22 2010, 10:16 pm

Quote
Was Nero Khan? His wife dead.. Space bugs.. Nero, "Spock! Spock!" Or was he Shinzon with a Spock obsession? Deja vu all over again...

Too many camera angle changes and why has the motion picture industry spent so much money on steady camera technology only for Abrams to force spastic-cam?


I thought the plot was subordinated a bit to the mission of getting those characters out there and being funny. But it's sort of "good" that the film felt like prologue--if it makes new fans want more.

One of the places I saw the film was at a domed I-Max. Un-unh--completely doesn't work with those camera techniques! Unless you enjoy soaking up a light show. But you won't be able to see what actually happened.

SpaceTherapist

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Report this Jun. 23 2010, 2:27 pm

Hey TB. I'm curious. Have you changed any of your views toward the movie since you first wrote it and if so how and why?

Vger23

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Report this Jun. 23 2010, 2:39 pm

I still feel the same way now that I did a year ago, with one exception:

I really don't like the production design at all. The Enterprise design, the interior sets, the props, etc are all pretty objectionable. I didn't dig on any of that stuff. I usually love the Star Trek production design, but I think this movie really came up short there.

Otherwise, I still really enjoy it.

SpaceTherapist

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Report this Jun. 23 2010, 3:10 pm

I do like the design of engineering less and less.

duderanch18237

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Report this Jun. 23 2010, 4:16 pm

I was never a big fan of the movie, but going in I was VERY optimistic, especially from that previous trailer. My girlfriend and I saw it together a few months ago, after she saw First Contact which she very much enjoyed (she's not a Trek fan at all). She said of Trek XI, "It was just a whole lot of fighting... what really happened the whole film? It got boring."

Everything in that film did feel rushed, and you can easily chalk that up to the fact that they had to introduce everyone as well.

That being said, I think the next film will be a deal breaker with me in the new franchise. Everyone's been introduced, which means they can get right into telling a good, full story. I heard it might also be dark, and I always like the darker themes.

SO, if JJ and co can put out a good sequel, I will deem this new franchise a success. If it's more of the same action and explosions, with a poor story and even more poorly explained villain, this new Trek franchise isn't for me.

TaoTrek

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Report this Jun. 23 2010, 9:23 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ June 23 2010, 6:47 am)
Quote (TaoTrek @ June 22 2010, 7:08 pm)
Thanks for re-posting this, TB. I always enjoy reading the perspective of a long-term fan.

While I greatly enjoyed the movie(first one I've seen in theatres), I too, had a problem with the Spock/Uhura pairing. Student/Mentor->Victim/Comforter->Lover/Lover??? I've studied pairings for an entirely different franchise and this just makes NO sense.

I'll still hold on to the "Alternate Universe" theory, though.
;)

Thanks, TaoTrek :)

Intimate relationships with subordinates are taboo in a military ("peace keeping armada") environment for a good reason. Nu-Spock initially assigned Uhura to another ship for this very reason. However, Uhura pointed out she was the best qualified for the position and nu-Spock could not fault her logic.

What I said was:
Quote (trekbuff @ June 22 2010, 2:30 pm)
What was actually going on between Spock and Uhura? How could the destruction of the Kelvin have prevented Spock's bonding with T'Pring four years later?

The relationship was unclear. Intimacy was merely hinted at albeit several times. My real question concerned T'Pring. Spock was bonded to T'Pring at the age of 7 in the previous unfolding of the timeline:
Quote
Spock: ...we must gather with the rest of Starfleet, to balance the terms of the next engagement.
Kirk: There won't be a next engagement. By the time we've gathered, it'll be too late. But you say he's from the future, knows what's going to happen, then the logical thing is to be unpredictable.
Spock: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
Uhura: An alternate reality?
Spock: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed. Mr. Sulu, plot a course to the Laurentian system warp factor three.

".. he's from the future, .."
".. the flow of history, .."
"An alternate reality?"
".. the time continuum was disrupted, .."

Not a single word about it being a parallel or alternate universe. In fact, everything nuSpock is saying states the time continuum was disrupted by Nero's incurrsion on the past of the prime timeline.

Think The City on the Edge of Forever and/or Yesterday's Enterprise.

:)

Thanks for responding, TB! :)

I can see what you mean by saying Abrams doesn't understand(or like) a thing about ST. Hopefully, the next movie will have a little more(or preferably, ALOT more) research into how ST typically works. No D@MN flashing lights!!! :laugh:

captbates

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Report this Jun. 24 2010, 9:54 am

Is this the DJ appreciation thread? :D

captbates

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Report this Jun. 24 2010, 10:29 am

Quote (trekbuff @ June 23 2010, 3:13 pm)
Quote (captbates @ June 24 2010, 9:54 am)
Is this the DJ appreciation thread? :D

Do you have something more than spam to contribute, CB, or did I miss the point of your question?

:question:

Yup, sure do.

I get that the movie has changed certain "aspects" of what we know about Trek, but surely we can put most of it to the side and just enjoy what we have, after all it's better than nothing...... a whole lot better IMO.


Look back at all the Trek series, everyone of them has inconsistencies, or Canon problems. This is a fresh start, why should we bother about something like the position of Delta Vega?
As I said I do understand what people are saying but why let it ruin a pretty decent movie? after all most of it is just nit picking.

SpaceTherapist

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Report this Jun. 24 2010, 1:22 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ June 22 2010, 4:16 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ June 23 2010, 3:10 pm)
I do like the design of engineering less and less.

You did notice the following just before Kirk got his butt kicked:;)

Ha! I never made that connection. The moment when Kirk & Scotty are chased through the Brewery-Engineering section is the one moment where I truly jump out of the film and it is so freaking obvious at that point where they are.

captbates

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Report this Jun. 24 2010, 2:07 pm

Quote
Better than nothing? Is that what we should now expect from Trek? Something is better than nothing? Try reading the comments in this thread. The disappointments of some folks are rather similar to what many have said about Enterprise - missed potential. Better than nothing? Giving vinegar to a man dieing of thirst is better than nothing, but not when there's a bucket of water nearby.


Read my quote again, I said it was "a whole lot better".

Quote
Inconsistencies and canon problems? Using accepted scientific nomenclature, Delta Vega would be the fourth planet in the Vega star system. Does the fictitional planet Vulcan orbit Vega? Orci was the Trek fan. Putting Delta Vega within naked eye view of Vulcan was no gift to Trek fans. I didn't do it, Orci did.


In TOS episode WNMHGB we see Delta Vega is near the great barrier, yes? is it any more scientific to suggest that the barrier exists? and when the Enterprise limps to DV on Impulse is it even plausable that no other ship has gone as far as the Enterprise even though the barrier is so close to DV?
Just some of many questions I could ask.


Quote
I posted my review of STXI. I've given some of my opinions of the writing, producing and direction of the movie. If better than nothing is what people complacently accept or even celebrate, that is what they will continue to get...


Lets face it, you can't please everyone, and as far as Trek movies go we never really get what we want, too many factors influence their production, and it's the fans that lose out.

;)

Vger23

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Report this Jun. 24 2010, 5:15 pm

I think one thing we can all be sure about is that one man's nit-pick is another man's serious business.

We all see and enjoy different things (and same things) about Star Trek, so different "varieties" of Trek are going to appeal differently to a great many of us. I think we CAN be thankful that Star Trek, like the world Gene so wisely tried to portray back in the late 1960's, is a diverse and varied entity.

That's the beauty of Star Trek. It really is a mirror for what it preaches: Diversity and inclusion of multiple philosophies and multiple points-of-view. The new movie is a perfect example of that. Some LOVE it. Some DETEST it. Some love certain parts / elements, and hate other parts/ elements. Some are indifferent and / or think of it as "average."

It's truly amazing!

captbates

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Report this Jun. 24 2010, 6:53 pm

Quote
Everyone has their favorites. If DS9 was/is your's, cool. I call it the saga within the saga, and I said I enjoyed it. But, it was different. The concept of a space station which could not trek turned a lot of folks off. VOY was fun, but being harassed by the Kazon then the Borg for the majority of a seven year series was a bit ridiculous. Carbon Creek of ENT is easily one of my favorite Trek episodes. The problem there was we failed to get not only the prequel we expected, but the prequel we were promised by the producers. Braga set out to give us his version of Trek and when we failed to support it he gave us TATV.

No, TOS is my favourite, but DS9 is probably the best.
The Kazon were badly written for sure, but the Borg were a great addition.
Enterprise was always going to be a problem, trying to make a show with less tech than the 60's ENT was never going to please fans.
Quote
Nit picking is saying the uniforms didn't use the same material. You have obviously yet to read my opening post to this thread. Basically, we've had the aparatif. I'm ready for dinner

Maybe I just stopped caring after ENT, it was the best way to enjoy Trek again. ¿;)
But seriously some problems can easily just be ignored.

:D

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