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Time travel through singularities?

wpittenger

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 117

Report this Jun. 18 2010, 4:21 am

The black hole used as a time travel device in the Star Trek movie from 2009 couldn't be used as shown.  Why?  It was created in 2387.  But both Spock Prime and Nero used it to travel over a century before the singularity's creation.  At the time, the black hole was still just a star.  Perhaps they should have used the Guardian of Forever.

Also, supernovae don't normally destroy galaxies or universes as mentioned.

_Lucifer_

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POSTS: 89

Report this Jun. 20 2010, 10:20 pm

JJ Abrams didn't want to pay royalties to that hack Harlan Ellison. Besides, how the hell do you fit a starship into something only a few meters wide?

wpittenger

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POSTS: 117

Report this Jun. 20 2010, 10:22 pm

Only people go through?

_Lucifer_

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POSTS: 89

Report this Jun. 20 2010, 10:33 pm

You tell me:

wpittenger

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POSTS: 117

Report this Jun. 20 2010, 10:35 pm

Besides, we know of cannon ways (using slingshots) to travel back in time.  Used 3 times as I recall.  And you could take your ship with you.  Just don't expect to save the dinosaurs.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Jun. 21 2010, 8:20 am

Quote (wpittenger @ June 20 2010, 10:35 pm)
Besides, we know of cannon ways (using slingshots) to travel back in time. ¿Used 3 times as I recall. ¿And you could take your ship with you. ¿Just don't expect to save the dinosaurs.

Who's to say what happened wasn't a "slingshot effect" of sorts? After all, a black hole certainly has enough gravity to accomodate it.

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Jun. 21 2010, 11:42 am

Look the bottom line is that JJ needed a reason to send them back through time, but he also needed the Romulans to be "Angry". The movie Plot is linked at several key points so that we have different layers of content. The main subject of the movie is bringing the characters together, followed by the shaping of the new universe (destruction of Romulus, destruction of Vulcan) etc. Then secondary points that can set things up for the next movie.

The slingshot Effect only covers one element of the movie, and would also give them a way of returning to the future.

Your also forgetting the possible side effects of the Red Matter in creating the "time hole"

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Jun. 21 2010, 12:52 pm

Quote (captbates @ June 21 2010, 11:42 am)
Look the bottom line is that JJ needed a reason to send them back through time, but he also needed the Romulans to be "Angry". The movie Plot is linked at several key points so that we have different layers of content. The main subject of the movie is bringing the characters together, followed by the shaping of the new universe (destruction of Romulus, destruction of Vulcan) etc. Then secondary points that can set things up for the next movie.

The slingshot Effect only covers one element of the movie, and would also give them a way of returning to the future.

Your also forgetting the possible side effects of the Red Matter in creating the "time hole"

True dat

Quantumflux01

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POSTS: 428

Report this Jun. 22 2010, 5:32 pm

Scientists think that a black holes 'spin' could potentially send objects either forwards or backwards in time. Completely theoretical of course. But I agree with you there Shuttle, redmatter, was one hell of a stupid plot device. It's to cheesy.

wpittenger

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POSTS: 117

Report this Jun. 22 2010, 6:03 pm

Did anyone notice that the "red matter" looks like human blood?  The writers of the movie seem to have implied with just a poorly conceived name that any matter that just happened to be red in color would act as shown on screen.  So you, assuming everyone here is human, is a walking talking time bomb just waiting to become a black hole.

And I should mention the the black hole wouldn't have to be inside Vulcan to destroy it.  Kirk's exile on Delta Vega would be fatal within a year as that planet was supposed to be close enough for Spock to see Vulcan as a disk.  Within one year, the entire system would be torn apart by any decent black hole.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Jun. 22 2010, 7:55 pm

Quote (Quantumflux01 @ June 22 2010, 5:32 pm)
Scientists think that a black holes 'spin' could potentially send objects either forwards or backwards in time. Completely theoretical of course. But I agree with you there Shuttle, redmatter, was one hell of a stupid plot device. It's to cheesy.

Certainly no more or less "stupid" or "cheesey" than

1. Being the only ship in the quadrant
2. The Genesis Device
3. Protomatter
4. Slingshot Effects causing time travel
5. The Nexus
6. Temporal Vortexes
7. Metaphasic Radiation in a planet's rings
8. A clone of Captain Picard becoming Preator of the Romulan Empire

Blockman

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POSTS: 520

Report this Jun. 23 2010, 4:34 am

Quote (Vger23 @ June 22 2010, 7:55 pm)
Quote (Quantumflux01 @ June 22 2010, 5:32 pm)
Scientists think that a black holes 'spin' could potentially send objects either forwards or backwards in time. Completely theoretical of course. But I agree with you there Shuttle, redmatter, was one hell of a stupid plot device. It's to cheesy.

Certainly no more or less "stupid" or "cheesey" than

1. Being the only ship in the quadrant
2. The Genesis Device
3. Protomatter
4. Slingshot Effects causing time travel
5. The Nexus
6. Temporal Vortexes
7. Metaphasic Radiation in a planet's rings
8. A clone of Captain Picard becoming Preator of the Romulan Empire

It's Star Trek 2009. A higher standard should be expected after 10-15 years, for all movies.

I mean the writers of today all had the chance to see those sloppy flubs from the past and read their criticism. There's no excuse for making the same mistakes today or justifying them simply because "if it happened in a previous film, it's ok for it to happen again today..." This goes for all films.

AtoZ2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1297

Report this Jun. 23 2010, 8:12 am

Quote (Shuttle @ June 22 2010, 3:19 am)
Quote (captbates @ June 20 2010, 12:42 pm)
Look the bottom line is that JJ needed a reason to send them back through time, but he also needed the Romulans to be "Angry". The movie Plot is linked at several key points so that we have different layers of content. The main subject of the movie is bringing the characters together, followed by the shaping of the new universe (destruction of Romulus, destruction of Vulcan) etc. Then secondary points that can set things up for the next movie.

The slingshot Effect only covers one element of the movie, and would also give them a way of returning to the future.

Your also forgetting the possible side effects of the Red Matter in creating the "time hole"

Ah yes, Redmatter - creator of black holes and stupid magic plot device used to explain something that the writers couldn't otherwise explain.

Ah yes, Proto Matter, Transporters, Warp Drive...all stupid plot devices used to explain something that the writers couldn't otherwise explain.

The list gos on...we forget that it's called science FICTION

If you want reality in your science fiction, wait till next week.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Jun. 23 2010, 11:10 am

Quote (Shuttle @ June 21 2010, 8:19 am)
Quote (captbates @ June 20 2010, 12:42 pm)
Look the bottom line is that JJ needed a reason to send them back through time, but he also needed the Romulans to be "Angry". The movie Plot is linked at several key points so that we have different layers of content. The main subject of the movie is bringing the characters together, followed by the shaping of the new universe (destruction of Romulus, destruction of Vulcan) etc. Then secondary points that can set things up for the next movie.

The slingshot Effect only covers one element of the movie, and would also give them a way of returning to the future.

Your also forgetting the possible side effects of the Red Matter in creating the "time hole"

Ah yes, Redmatter - creator of black holes and stupid magic plot device used to explain something that the writers couldn't otherwise explain.

I don't have a problem with Red Matter, Sci Fi has come up with much "wilder" concepts.

Narada

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4010

Report this Jun. 25 2010, 1:21 pm

Quote (captbates @ June 23 2010, 11:10 am)
Quote (Shuttle @ June 21 2010, 8:19 am)
Quote (captbates @ June 20 2010, 12:42 pm)
Look the bottom line is that JJ needed a reason to send them back through time, but he also needed the Romulans to be "Angry". The movie Plot is linked at several key points so that we have different layers of content. The main subject of the movie is bringing the characters together, followed by the shaping of the new universe (destruction of Romulus, destruction of Vulcan) etc. Then secondary points that can set things up for the next movie.

The slingshot Effect only covers one element of the movie, and would also give them a way of returning to the future.

Your also forgetting the possible side effects of the Red Matter in creating the "time hole"

Ah yes, Redmatter - creator of black holes and stupid magic plot device used to explain something that the writers couldn't otherwise explain.

I don't have a problem with Red Matter, Sci Fi has come up with much "wilder" concepts.

Yes I agree with the recent main points that emphasize how Star Trek is science fiction entertainment. One of my favorite examples of a scientist who was nitpicking the scientific accuracy of Star Trek comes from Isaac Asimov. I posted this before but I think it is a good reference which keeps everything in perspective.

"Asimov and Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry developed a unique relationship during Star Trek's initial launch in the late 1960s. Asimov wrote a critical essay on Star Trek's scientific accuracy for TV Guide magazine. Roddenberry retorted respectfully with a personal letter explaining the limitations of accuracy when writing a weekly series. Asimov corrected himself with a follow-up essay to TV Guide claiming despite its inaccuracies, that Star Trek was a fresh and intellectually challenging science fiction television show. The two remained friends to the point where Asimov even served as an advisor on a number of Star Trek projects." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov

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